Crockett & Jones NYC - Lousy Experience

[kev777]



Kev, are those the Westbournes? I have that shoe, love it.

Are the Westbournes an Adelaide an were they a special ???

 

[SpooPoker]



Are the Westbournes an Adelaide an were they a special ???

Dont think they were specials.

 

[kev777]

Lovely looking shoe lovely looking colour.

 

[PL92106]



Wait, are we tipping SAs now?

If you want to call the commission on my sale a "tip"... The stores that don't pay commission usually track sales by SA when doing reviews/recutting wages.

 

[KObalto]



You seem to be very sensitive.

Now you have hurt my feelings!

 

[Yachting Man]

Such a shame this happened to the OP. Go somewhere else. Barney's has a good selection.

 

[TheGraduate]

I know I'm terribly late to the discussion, but I was struck by many of the responses in this thread. I have a burning question: has anyone considered race to be an issue?

There was a Primetime program with Diane Sawyer, it was called True Colors (it's here on YouTube, part 2 is there too). It's about racial discrimination in daily life. Specifically, the black person (Glenn, IIRC) experiences a very poor shopping experience, and the poor service posted here reminded me of his experience. Being a non-white person, and young too, I feel that I get a fair bit of discrimination in high-end shops. The experiences some have posted is definitely something that I have experienced myself. I once went to Turnbull & Asser to order some bespoke items. I was let into the store, but the whole place felt like it was deserted: not a person in sight to help me. I walked upstairs to the umbrella section and the man there didn't even look up to greet me. He made himself look busy with his work and didn't make himself easily available. It should be noted that I was wearing a three-piece bespoke suit with well-shined shoes. I experienced this same "deserted store" phenomenon in Brooks Brothers on the same day (I was going on a shopping spree). Yet, when I went to Mont Blanc half an hour later, I was well-received. The key difference? The woman who helped me was not white, whereas the staff at T&A and BB were white. This is merely an observation and food for thought, and by no means is it an accusation; I'm not an instigator.

I was just wondering if people ever even considered race as a factor, because that Primetime show sheds some light on the invisibility of racial discrimination: we never know it exists until we see someone else getting different treatment, because we tend to assume that our experience is everyone else's. It's just something I thought was relevant to the discussion of the varying degrees of service we get. Personally, as a sales professional, I have never judged a person by the way they look, for two reasons. Firstly, I find it to be a nasty thing to do (I live by the golden rule). Secondly, like someone had mentioned in this thread, you just never know who's got money to burn and you never know who will have it in the future: you can only lose by discriminating, and you always win when you treat everyone like a valuable customer.

Thanks to this thread, I won't be getting my hopes up at C&J. I won't let it stop me from visiting, but it's good to hear other people's experiences.

 

[Blackhood]

This is not a race issue for the following reasons:

1. It occurred in NYC. Of all the cities in the world, NYC is most likely to have a successful black\non-white population. No high-end store would get away with discriminating, they would loose too many sales. I worked as an art dealer, and many of my best customers were black, there is no wealth divide at that level. (apart from there being more wealthy white people of course. I mean that wealth isn't exclusively in the hands of whites)

2. You are significantly more likely to be penalised for being young. An SA knows that a 25 year old is less likely to buy a cap-toe box calf than a 55 year old. They will treat you as such.

3. T&A and many high end stores are populated by wealthy people. These people know what they want, and will obtain it when ready. In many instances they leave patrons alone to browse, trusting that if a question arises they will ask it. If you're spending $600 on shoes, there is a damn good chance you know what you're doing and don't want an SA bobbing along at your elbow while you shop.


I sometimes wonder exactly how prevalent racism actually is. There have been several instances on SF of non-whites blaming race for poor service, only to have white people claim to have received the same service. I live with two Nigerians (both of whom are unbelievably well educated) and when ever a fight breaks out, they bring race into the equation before anyone else. In situations like this one with C&J I wonder how often there is a victim without a perpetrator.

 

[ShayaEXQT]

Excellent first post. with equally excellent response! it changed how i look at shopping in high end stores for sure!!

Quote:

I know I'm terribly late to the discussion, but I was struck by many of the responses in this thread. I have a burning question: has anyone considered race to be an issue?

There was a Primetime program with Diane Sawyer, it was called True Colors (it's here on YouTube, part 2 is there too). It's about racial discrimination in daily life. Specifically, the black person (Glenn, IIRC) experiences a very poor shopping experience, and the poor service posted here reminded me of his experience. Being a non-white person, and young too, I feel that I get a fair bit of discrimination in high-end shops. The experiences some have posted is definitely something that I have experienced myself. I once went to Turnbull & Asser to order some bespoke items. I was let into the store, but the whole place felt like it was deserted: not a person in sight to help me. I walked upstairs to the umbrella section and the man there didn't even look up to greet me. He made himself look busy with his work and didn't make himself easily available. It should be noted that I was wearing a three-piece bespoke suit with well-shined shoes. I experienced this same "deserted store" phenomenon in Brooks Brothers on the same day (I was going on a shopping spree). Yet, when I went to Mont Blanc half an hour later, I was well-received. The key difference? The woman who helped me was not white, whereas the staff at T&A and BB were white. This is merely an observation and food for thought, and by no means is it an accusation; I'm not an instigator.

I was just wondering if people ever even considered race as a factor, because that Primetime show sheds some light on the invisibility of racial discrimination: we never know it exists until we see someone else getting different treatment, because we tend to assume that our experience is everyone else's. It's just something I thought was relevant to the discussion of the varying degrees of service we get. Personally, as a sales professional, I have never judged a person by the way they look, for two reasons. Firstly, I find it to be a nasty thing to do (I live by the golden rule). Secondly, like someone had mentioned in this thread, you just never know who's got money to burn and you never know who will have it in the future: you can only lose by discriminating, and you always win when you treat everyone like a valuable customer.

Thanks to this thread, I won't be getting my hopes up at C&J. I won't let it stop me from visiting, but it's good to hear other people's experiences.

Quote:

This is not a race issue for the following reasons:
1. It occurred in NYC. Of all the cities in the world, NYC is most likely to have a successful black\non-white population. No high-end store would get away with discriminating, they would loose too many sales. I worked as an art dealer, and many of my best customers were black, there is no wealth divide at that level. (apart from there being more wealthy white people of course. I mean that wealth isn't exclusively in the hands of whites)
2. You are significantly more likely to be penalised for being young. An SA knows that a 25 year old is less likely to buy a cap-toe box calf than a 55 year old. They will treat you as such.
3. T&A and many high end stores are populated by wealthy people. These people know what they want, and will obtain it when ready. In many instances they leave patrons alone to browse, trusting that if a question arises they will ask it. If you're spending $600 on shoes, there is a damn good chance you know what you're doing and don't want an SA bobbing along at your elbow while you shop.
I sometimes wonder exactly how prevalent racism actually is. There have been several instances on SF of non-whites blaming race for poor service, only to have white people claim to have received the same service. I live with two Nigerians (both of whom are unbelievably well educated) and when ever a fight breaks out, they bring race into the equation before anyone else. In situations like this one with C&J I wonder how often there is a victim without a perpetrator.

 

[TheGraduate]

Very interesting point about how a salesperson will assume that you will ask for help when needed, I'd never really thought of it that way. I don't really expect a Hollywood treatment and do prefer to be left alone on account of the fact that I am usually more knowledgeable than the staff anyway, so it doesn't bother me so much that they are not hovering. Even so, there is a minimum level of service expected, no? Even a simple greeting would suffice. It is most natural to greet someone when they first enter your vicinity, isn't it? My own specific experience involves the "deserted shop" feeling. It's a distinct feeling in that associates try to go out of their way to avoid you. They hide around corners and behind pillars. It sounds absolutely absurd and quite ridiculous, I know

Perhaps I should wear a hidden camera to record what I experience just the same way they did in that Primetime show. This kind of behavior is different from merely being passive and not actively trying to help a customer. In this case, they are actively avoiding me. There are confounding factors that may effect this behavior from the staff, so it is hard to pinpoint any particular trait of mine. I just wonder what would happen if it were a 20-year old WASP who walked into those stores wearing inexpensive clothing as opposed to a 25-year old non-white in a bespoke suit.

You make some very good points all across the board, and I can see now some of the different factors at play when it comes to high-end stores that cater to the wealthy. Though I can afford to do some shopping at these places, I'm certainly not wealthy by any means, so I haven't the slightest idea how the wealthy interact with the staff in these environments. Of course, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss racism. After all, we do live in America, and America is an inherently racialized nation where there is a racial pecking order that insidiously operates outside of consciousness and pervades the American common sense. At the end of the day, it's just food for thought. I'm not asserting anything either way, I merely wished to bring such things to light for people's own consideration.

Now, off to choose which pair of C&Js I'll be getting for myself this Christmas

Off to browse these forums some more.

 

[viator]

These places don't seem to like high pressure sales approaches so they give people some breathing space. Maybe you get more breathing space because you're young, but I doubt it's because you are not white.

 

[Gdot]

The original complaint in this thread was way back in June. Ok - perhaps one or even two posters had a less than stellar experience and that is unfortunate.

Can anybody comment on recent experiences?

I've only dealt with them over the phone and everyone I spoke to was lovely and helpful.

Could it be that whatever problems they once had at the NYC store have been addressed and resolved?

The service at their Jermyn St locations in London was also great (just last week).

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I have been in there, never purchased anything. I was left alone to browse with the standard, "let me know if you have any questions". Everything seemed fine except their prices for C&J shoes.

 

[negusnegas]

I think by default discrimination is something that the average white male has a very difficult time associating with. I think a lot of it is subconscious and institutionalized, but some of it is overt and quite obvious if you pay a little bit of attention. Not to say this is one instance, but being young and black is in general not something that results in the best service from a lot of high end establishments. Ironically of course, minorities and especially black people purchase inordinate amounts of designer goods even if the designers themselves would rather not have their patronage.

 

[CYstyle]

At the same time though the amount of fraud and theft at designer stores are predominately young and black.

Sales associates discriminate against all people.If white trash walked into a store at the same time as Oprah, the SA's would rush to help Oprah and ignore the hick. It's only natural, being a fully commissioned sales person you gravitate toward those you think will buy alot and therefore you will get paid. Helping someone who isn't going to purchase something is a waste of time and energy, and also they may miss out on a big sale in the meantime.

Have non-whites who felt discriminated against ever actually bought something? Sales associates can for the most part correctly judge whether a person is merely browsing or an actual shopper. I feel sorry for white people. They always get the accusations of racism, even though non-whites are just as if not more racist

that diane sawyer clip is 20 years old.. a lot has changed in 20 years.