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Crockett & Jones for Ralph Lauren Cordovan (Marlow, Darlton, Gifford, Garran, Lindrick, McCallum, Rh

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by NAMOR, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    You've been a member for just as long as I have... and you don't know this?
     
  2. Master Milano

    Master Milano Senior member

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    I started off in this part of the forum but migrated to SW&D after some of the older users stopped posting, so I'm not really in the loop :(. Also I've never worn high quality MC (do duckie brown for Florsheim count) shoes so I'm not really sure what to look for in order to distinguish between the good and the bad. In any case, mind helping or do I have to officially put up the spoo-signal?

    Basic breakdown of high end shoes please :embar:
     
  3. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Senior member

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    You're talking to the right person Milano, (Spoopoker), but if you want a 2nd opinion, and since you're in New York, why don't you saunter over to Leffot and have a little browse, and, if you are not impressed to death, or, if you don't buy anything he has on offer, I will pick up the tab! Deal?
     
  4. md2010

    md2010 Senior member

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    Gents, I am thinking of buying a pair of Marlow (either wingtip/tassel/penny). I have a pair of RL Sanderson wingtip in US8D which is really tight on toe area(even after 10 wear). I am a TTS US8EEE. Should I get US8.5 for Marlow wingtip ?
    I also have a pair of RL Singleton Loafer in US8D which was extremely tight around toe area. And after 10-15 wear they loosened up and fit snug. For marlow penny / tassel should I size up to US 8.5D ?
    Also both RL shoes are narrow and long and I get a tiny bit of heel slippage with both pairs.And breaking in shes to fit properly is a painful process which these days I avoid.
    Thanks in advance.
     
  5. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    :laugh: ... what LeJouvre said.. take a look at Leffot. I can't explain shoe hierarchies in one reply, but if you want a very quick and simple who pwns who :

    GG
    JL
    EG

    ----

    CJ
     
  6. curzon

    curzon Senior member

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    I own both. The sanderson is narrower than the marlow brogues. That being said, the advice throughout this thread was size down 1/2 size on the marlow, which I did, and it was good advice. Seems to me you ought to be an 8.5 w/ the sanderson. W/ a loafer I usually size down .5 to have a snugger fit and eliminate heel slippage
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2012
  7. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Senior member

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    I don't want to be too depressing here but, if you are a TTS USEEE width, well, you may have some trouble with the Marlow because they do not come in E width, much less EEE width.

    If you fit a Sanderson 8D, well then, let me ask you this, are you sure you are a EEE?

    Marlows are a great last, and there is ample room in the toe box and the heel, which is why downsizing is so common, but if you are going to spend almost $900 on a pair of shoes I would definitely try them on first, unless you are willing to go through the embarrassment of multiple returns. One thing worse than a loose fitting toe box is a loose heel, and I suspect this is going to be your problem if you do not size down at least 1/2 size.

    RL have always been willing to send me two pairs of their products for fitting with a view to returning 1 pair. If you really can't make it to a RL store, this might be an alternative option.

    Why are you thinking of sizing UP to a 8.5? instead of down 1/2 size as is frequently recommended? Is it to gain width?
     
  8. kmdsimpson

    kmdsimpson Senior member

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    You need to take the Sanderson's fit completely out of the equation. It is made by Allen Edmonds, and it is on their 2 last, which is an extremely narrow last. I'm a D width, and that shoe feels like a B or C to me. The reason it hurts you is because it is too narrow for an EEE foot. I don't know anything about the Singleton, but if the sole is the same shape and size as the Sanderson, same issues. (I think the Sanderson is the AE Willams):
    http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/AllAboutLastsView?catalogId=40000000001&langId=-1&storeId=1
    http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF7602_1_40000000001_-1


    The Marlow is made by C&J and is a completely different shoe. Try the advice from others here regarding the fit. Just do not compare it to the Sanderson at all.
     
  9. Gauss17

    Gauss17 Senior member

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    chipshot and LeJouvre, thank you for the advice it is much appreciated.

    As far as wide width marlows go...apparently Mr. Porter used to have them and does not anymore. However, if you look at the polo ralph lauren UK site (http://www.ralphlauren.co.uk/produc...1.3989711.5438121&ab=ln_men_accessories_shoes), they show wide US widths. There still however appears to be some confusion about the width the US RL actually has. Most seem to agree that the US RL marlows are actually the narrow width version of the 325 last (or the C&J pembroke). This is not 100%, but most posts point in this direction. I believe there is even a fellow on AAAC that compares them to his pembrokes and they are different in the same size. Now, looking at the UK website, it says US E width, but this corresponds to an F width in UK right? Or should I assume these are actually the normal UK E width shoes? It just says, for example, UK 10.5, US 11E. Anyone weigh in on this?

    Also, has anyone in the US successfully gotten E width marlow wingtips?
     
  10. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

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    Which seems more likely?
    In the UK RL only sells wide width of the Darlton and in the US only sells medium width
    or
    there's some confusion as to the way RL lists shoe size on the UK site.

    Take a look at the other "good" shoes on the UK site.
    They're all listed as E width.
     
  11. alexSF

    alexSF Senior member

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    I asked customer service and they confirmed me that in Europe they sell US E width as standard., also for Rancourt made shoes and others.

    I think that the US D is the UK E, so US E should be the UK F etc.
    Note that these shoes are also available in US EE width see here: (look inside pictures)

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polo-Ralp..._Men_s_Shoes&hash=item43afd2d0f1#ht_614wt_905
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polo-Ralp..._Men_s_Shoes&hash=item1c271142b4#ht_614wt_905

    This is right for 314 last (available in Uk in E, F and G width, so US D, E and EE are correct)
    Regarding the wingtip the strange thing is that the last 325 is apparently available only in UK E and G width so I don't know what's width is the US E of this model.

    In my experience the 9D penny is identical to the UK 8.5 E in measurements, I found them little and really narrow,
    I'm a TTS UK 8.5 F.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2012
  12. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Senior member

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    I own an old pair of Marlows in "E", but then, I was fortunate to have dealt with a particularly enthusiastic SA in NY who cannot take "no" as an answer. I believe RL did bring a very limited quantity of English "EE" of "F" for the US market, but they were never properly distributed to the stores or online store.

    UK size "E" is basically a "D" - take a look at the bottom of this web page for a reasonable estimate of comparisons.:- http://www.veganline.com/shoe-sizes.htm

    If you are a TTS 8EEE as you say, and, if you fit a 8D Sanderson very tightly, my first educated guess would be to go for a size 7.5 Marlow. If the heel fits comfortably without slippage, and, if you find the shoe a little tight in the middle of the box, you may have your perfect Marlow fit.

    My Marlows have to be reasonably tight from the joint of the small toe and across at least the first two-three small toes. If these toes do not struggle at the first fit, the shoe will become too loose and you may have to replace them.

    Remember, good shoes are like a good wine, the more the vine struggles through winter, the better the wine, but it cannot struggle to the point that you kill the vine.

    A good fitting Marlow needs to be at least 1/2 size small, the sides of the toe box needs to be quite firm, and, since we are dealing with Cordovan here, the shoes will be a tough stretch before they move into shape, but when they do....................... Heaven!

    Go ahead and try the 7.5 Marlow, but if you can get to a store, that would obviously be the best way to go.
     
  13. ethanm

    ethanm Senior member

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    Here's an addition [​IMG]

    GG
    JL
    EG
    ----
    Carmina
    CJ
     
  14. Gerry Nelson

    Gerry Nelson Senior member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. NAMOR

    NAMOR Senior member

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    For me

    GG
    JL
    EG
    Vass
    Carmina
    C&J
    Grenson Masterpiece
    Meermin?
    Duckie Brown
    Alden

    Based on quality, fit, price, and value. Alden shell is terribly overpriced, imo
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2012
  16. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Senior member

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    OK I've handled DB shells and they are simply awful. I can't overstate how bad those shoes were.
     
  17. NAMOR

    NAMOR Senior member

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    I didn't think so. And I'm willing to spend 30 minutes polishing/finishish for a $300 pair of shell boots
     
  18. LeJouvre

    LeJouvre Senior member

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    +1 absolutely.
     
  19. chipshot

    chipshot Senior member

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    Given 1/2 down from normal US. My experience ... ME = 9.5 US

    Wings last 325 normal length and tiny bit narrow 9 D
    Penny last 314 short and narrow 9 D
    Tassel last 72 curved so fits longer, narrow as well 8 1/2 D
    PTB? 348 Shorter than the Wings and tiny bit narrow 9 D

    This line up seems to be ideal for me. I advise I also have narrow ecto build ... ie, thin feet. sorta but not a US C though ..

    PTB last input anybody? The PRB fist me slightly shorter than the Wing, but man do I love this toe profile; after a few wears, they fit like a glove. Still my favorite of the line and stoked I found them in the store as they were never on the website to my knowledge. Hope this helps those who are trying to fit these. My personal experience is Cordovan eventually conforms to your feet if your patient enough. At that point, you'll be loving yourself for all the deliberation and pain compromise....
     
  20. md2010

    md2010 Senior member

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    Mate you are right about the width. My Sanderson marked at US8E(in Australia they tend to send the Uk stocks). But no way this could be an E. This pair of Sanderson caused me huge pain… It created a huge painful corn on my left pinky toe. I had to burn it and I was unable to wear dress shoes for over 2 /3 weeks. When I bought my Sanderson the SA assured me the fit was perfect and they will loosen up over time !! Double leather sole shoes and also with wingtip takes ages to break in and gives less as the extra bit of leather around the toe area.
    With Marlow I think I will go with US8D. Wearing tight shoes are such a pain I can’t tolerate. Also they don’t sell the Marlow in Australian stores. So online is the only way to go.
    I have few pairs of DB cordovan LW. As per forum most went ½ size down. But I didn’t size down and went US8D and perfect fit. Just a bit of heel slippage. I thought cordovan has less give ?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2012

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