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Critique my Chan *shirt*

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by thinman, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    Not to be confused with the Chan suit thread I started on the Temporary StyleForum earlier this week!

    I have one shirt that I received from Chan last October and I need some help deciding what changes I should request for the shirts I intend to order when I meet with Patrick Chu next Friday. Prior to receiving this shirt, I bought RTW shirts in approximately the correct size, since no one I know makes RTW shirts with a 15" neck and 36" sleeve. So, even though I see some things about the Chan shirt that I dislike, I'm embarassed to admit that I really don't know how a well-fitting shirt should look. Here are the pictures (I was in a rush, so I didn't have the shirt pressed and I also forgot a t-shirt[​IMG] ):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. rajesh06

    rajesh06 Senior member

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    Shirt looks good to me.
    I used to wear undershirts - now I wouldn't dream of it. Unless you are a heavy perspirer - why would you want to replace the feeling of high thread count cotton next to your skin with that of an undershirt?

    Also - shirts will last longer if worn without an undershirt - the rubbing of the two layers will wear out your shirt.
     
  3. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Much better than OTR. As a fellow thin guy, I appreciate the difficulty in finding clothes that are cut appropriately.

    If I were you, I'd have more taken in at the waist. On the next shirt, I'd have the sleeves lengthened, particularly if this one hasn't been washed. Hard to tell, but it looks like the arm holes might be a bit low as well. Like the spread collar. You might even consider having the next collar made a bit taller. I have a skinny neck and have found that a deeper collar can make a big difference.
     
  4. ATM

    ATM Senior member

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    I agree with adding to the sleeve length.
     
  5. Aureus

    Aureus Senior member

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    Looks good, though I'd think you need another inch or more in the sleeves.
     
  6. Pink22m

    Pink22m Senior member

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    [QUOTEAlso - shirts will last longer if worn without an undershirt - the rubbing of the two layers will wear out your shirt.][/quote]

    I seriously doubt that. If anything, it would seem that shirts would last longer when worn with an undershirt, since they prevent your shirt from absorbing alot of the body odor from your body. Also, undershirts protect your shirt from potentially damaging deodorant. There isn't anything coarse about a soft white cotton undershirt, and I would wager that any negative effects from *rubbing* of the two shirts, are negligible.
     
  7. rajesh06

    rajesh06 Senior member

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    I seriously doubt that. If anything, it would seem that shirts would last longer when worn with an undershirt, since they prevent your shirt from absorbing alot of the body odor from your body. Also, undershirts protect your shirt from potentially damaging deodorant. There isn't anything coarse about a soft white cotton undershirt, and I would wager that the *harmful* effects that might occur from the two shirts rubbing against each other are negligible.

    Well this is my experience and it is also what was recomended to me by the shirtmaker I am using in Philly (Barton and Donaldson)
     
  8. Pink22m

    Pink22m Senior member

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    I wonder what Mr. Kabbaz would say about this. I have never had any problems wearing undershirts under my dress shirts. I would much rather have my $10 Target Merona tees absorbing my sweat then my $400 Borrelli.
     
  9. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    Wow! You guys are echoing my thoughts pretty closely. I don't like all the fabric pooling around my waist, though it's much better than OTR. I'd also been considering a higher collar, but don't want it so high it looks weird.

    DocHolliday, I specified a very slim fit, but I'll ask Patrick if tapering the next shirts even more might get rid of the "fabric pool" at my waist. I'm tired of swimming in my shirts. The shirt had been washed about 3 times when the pictures were taken, but I don't show enough cuff when I wear the shirt with my Chan suit. On my Chan suit thread, jklu (who goes by whoopee here, I think) suggested longer shirt sleeves and I objected that the suit sleeves were simply too long. I guess I now have confirming opinions that it's the shirt and not the suit!! I'll definitely ask for longer sleeves and ask Patrick about higher armholes and a higher collar (how much higher would you suggest, about 1/4"?).

    What are your thoughts about the puckering from shoulders to the first/second buttons? I usually get this on OTR shirts, especially from my lower, left shoulder (yes, I'm left-handed). Can anything be done about this?
    Is the tie space OK? How about the fit of the collar (given that it's seen minimal laundering)?

    OT: Now that I look at the pictures, it seems I forgot collar stays, too.
     
  10. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    I tend to perspire a fair amount and would prefer to have a t-shirt soaking it up rather than my dress shirt. Also, I would think skin (and hair, yuck) rubbing on cotton would cause more wear than cotton on cotton. This particular _white_ shirt is also thin enough that it's unsightly to go without a t-shirt underneath.
     
  11. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    I think you should go at least 1/2" higher on the collar. Tie space and degree of spread depends on you; it's fine as it is. The horizontal pulling at the chest/shoulders, I believe, comes from tightness and incorrectly sloped shoulders (on the shirt).

    Along with the other comments, the sleeves could be slimmer. Have you thought about make the double cuffs a bit longer?
     
  12. Get Smart

    Get Smart Senior member

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    how much is a Chan shirt vs Jantzen?

    honestly, I'm not too excited by how it looks. Reasons already mentioned. Did you give them inaccurate measurements? I guess the next time around your shirt will more'n likely fit better with adjustments made from this one. Good luck with the next Chan meeting.
     
  13. NoVaguy

    NoVaguy Senior member

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    I agree with docholliday, - take something off the waist (maybe 2 inches overall? hard to say), add an inch to the sleeve, and make the collar taller (although the collar adjustment is optional).
     
  14. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    DocHolliday, I specified a very slim fit, but I'll ask Patrick if tapering the next shirts even more might get rid of the "fabric pool" at my waist. I'm tired of swimming in my shirts. The shirt had been washed about 3 times when the pictures were taken, but I don't show enough cuff when I wear the shirt with my Chan suit. On my Chan suit thread, jklu (who goes by whoopee here, I think) suggested longer shirt sleeves and I objected that the suit sleeves were simply too long. I guess I now have confirming opinions that it's the shirt and not the suit!! I'll definitely ask for longer sleeves and ask Patrick about higher armholes and a higher collar (how much higher would you suggest, about 1/4"?).

    What are your thoughts about the puckering from shoulders to the first/second buttons? I usually get this on OTR shirts, especially from my lower, left shoulder (yes, I'm left-handed). Can anything be done about this?
    Is the tie space OK? How about the fit of the collar (given that it's seen minimal laundering)?


    Let me ask you this: Does the shirt seem tight around your lower chest? It looks like it's pulling near the clavicles, but I'm having a hard time making out what's going on farther down.

    As mentioned already, tie space is personal preference. But I like a little bit extra, just to add wideness to the collar.

    In terms of collar height, I think you can easily add a good bit. But it's hard to say just how much after looking at the pics. Are you standing naturally, or do you have your head tipped up like many people do when photographed?
     
  15. BjornH

    BjornH Senior member

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    My guess is that you have your shoulders pitched backwards. This makes the shirt loose in the back (vertical ripples), and a bit tight in the front (horisontal ripples). Ask them to adjust for that, if this is your natural posture.

    I have the opposite problem. My shoulders point a bit forward so my shirts are always a bit sloppy over the chest. Perhaps Jantzen can adjust the yoke and whatever is needed for me.
     
  16. Vintage Gent

    Vintage Gent Senior member

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    I agree with adding to the sleeve length.

    I concur. I had to ask Chan to add about a quarter inch to my shirt sleeves. Otherwise, a very nice shirt.
     
  17. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    Hard to decide wether the fabric or the lack of pressing is responsible for this underwhelming firstlook. As for fit, the same as with your suit, your shoulders are pointing backwards which pulls the front and frowns the back [​IMG]

    !luc
     
  18. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    Thanks for the additional feedback.

    So to summarize, I'll ask Patrick to trim the waist by about 2" (I'll actually see how much excess fabric I have at the waist and judge from that), raise the collar by about 1/2" (though I do have my chin up in the photo), lengthen the sleeves by about 1", trim the sleeves, and raise the armholes.

    The shirt is not tight around my chest, but I suspect that BjornH and Luc-Emmanuel are right that my shoulders are back more than normal. Because I usually slouch forward, I sometimes try to compensate by keeping my shoulders back. However, I notice some puckering across the chest whenever I wear the shirt, so some of the effect appears when I'm standing naturally. I'm not sure how to communicate this to Patrick, other than trying my best to forget about posture when modeling the shirt. This will be hard to do, since I'm working with an osteopath to correct some postural issues and I'm very conscious of my posture. In an ideal world, I wouldn't be buying shirts and a suit right now, but I can't walk around naked.

    Get Smart, Chan charges $110 per shirt and they do the measurements. I don't expect a perfect product on the first try, but I would like the second and subsequent shirts to be much better. I've tried the self-measuring route and the results were not as good. I should also say that this is not a fair representation of Chan's work, for reasons given in the paragraph above. They really are shooting at something of a moving target, as my posture has improved somewhat in the past 9-10 months.
     

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