Covid accelerated dress code de-formalization - true or false?

[rjc149]

the idea of feeling special I don’t understand. It’s a very middle class notion actually. It becomes part of a costume party where we all go out to a fancy restaurant and get dressed up for it. Sort of like little girls having a tea party with their dolls.

These days I imagine most people who go to fancy pants establishments that require jackets are middle class people seeking the old-timey "rich and famous" experience, rather than actual wealthy people who need an exclusive social club from which to look down their noses as they puff their cigars and hoist their linen sacks of gold coins with dollar signs stenciled to them.

Of course it's dress-up. Grown adults having a martini party with their discretionary income.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Fellas, is it unmanly to want to feel good?

“I just want to be loved, is that so wrong?”
Harvey Fierstein ( the good Harvey)

 

[Phileas Fogg]

These days I imagine most people who go to fancy pants establishments that require jackets are middle class people seeking the old-timey "rich and famous" experience, rather than actual wealthy people who need an exclusive social club from which to look down their noses as they puff their cigars and hoist their linen sacks of gold coins with dollar signs stenciled to them.

Of course it's dress-up. Grown adults having a martini party with their discretionary income.

don’t get me started on cigars.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

don’t get me started on cigars.

Don't get me started on martinis.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

Fellas, is it unmanly to want to feel good?

Very. Everyone knows that feeling bad is a natural state of the masculine condition.

 

[dieworkwear]

My impression is that people enjoy these stories because tailored clothing is associated with an air of respectability. It's often used as a proxy for other things and people are nostalgic for a time they never lived.

Stories about how dress codes are relaxing at high-end restaurants and certain offices, as well as speculations about whether the tie is dead, often get a lot of clicks. It's not because many people are interested in these things -- they may not even eat at such restaurants or work in finance. Clothing discussions in other areas are often considered too mundane. It's more than tailoring is used as a proxy for an imagined past.

 

[RSS]

I mean, yes. Some people are recognizable. I'm not claiming to rub elbows with anyone -- they wouldn't know me from a rock on the ground.

Decades ago when New York was my primary residence, my spouse served on a board with Faith Stewart-Gordon and we ate a her restaurant, the Russian Tea Room, about once a month. If the place wasn't overflowing with the types who demanded the booths up front, she'd put us there ... probably because she knew us and we were dressed. Once a woman with a very heavy New York accent came over to our table and began pointing to the people in the other booths, "I know who she is, I know who he is, but who are you?" A nearby celebrity heard this happening and jumped into action rushing over to our table "I didn't see you when I came in but I'm so glad to know you are here. We must talk after lunch ... it has been too long." Neither of us personally knew this local celebrity ... but after that the woman with the New York accent was very impressed. We just smiled and thought ... what a crazy world.

Oh, and feeling good is important to me. Special I can do without.

 

[pasadena man]

Decades ago when New York was my primary residence, my spouse served on a board with Faith Stewart-Gordon and we ate a her restaurant, the Russian Tea Room, about once a month. If the place wasn't overflowing with the types that demanded the booths up front, she'd put us there ... probably because she knew us and we were dressed. Once a woman with a very heavy New York accent came over to our table and began pointing to the other people in the other booths, "I know who she is, I know who he is, but who are you?" A nearby celebrity heard this happening and jumped into action rushing over to our table "I didn't see you when I came in but I'm so glad to know you are here. We must talk after lunch ... it has been too long." Neither of us personally knew this local celebrity ... but after that the woman with the New York accent was very impressed. We just smiled and thought ... what a crazy world.

Oh, and feeling good is important to me.

Sounds like bucket list material to me.

Rodney Dangerfield used to tell a story about running into Frank Sinatra, who he knew well from playing in Vegas together, at a swank NY restaurant. He went over to Sinatra and asked him to stop by Dangerfield’s table, because his dinner companion was a big fan. So Sinatra came over to say hi after dinner and Dangerfield said “Frank, can’t you see I am talking to somebody here?”.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

My impression is that people enjoy these stories because tailored clothing is associated with an air of respectability. It's often used as a proxy for other things and people are nostalgic for a time they never lived.

Stories about how dress codes are relaxing at high-end restaurants and certain offices, as well as speculations about whether the tie is dead, often get a lot of clicks. It's not because many people are interested in these things -- they may not even eat at such restaurants or work in finance. Clothing discussions in other areas are often considered too mundane. It's more than tailoring is used as a proxy for an imagined past.

Sure, but that's because tailored clothing is inherently more respectable. And by that I mean both modern and classic tailoring, not just the latter. The traditionally high-status clothing of any culture is going to be more acceptable anywhere in that country, and the fashions that their version of high society adopts will be the trends.

The real question is whether any of us really want to be respectable. Sounds kind of prudish.

 

[RSS]

The idea of feeling special I don’t understand. It becomes part of a costume party where we all go out to a fancy restaurant and get dressed up for it. Sort of like little girls having a tea party with their dolls.

Speaking of costume party ... Have you dropped in on the Charvet Western Shirt thread?

Not everyone is buying JLC watches and eating $200 plates on a regular basis, even if they're spending a lot on clothes.

As I'm sure you know, there are watch and food enthusiasts too. Heck right here in River City (MC) there is a watch thread where at least a few fellows think little -- or claim to -- of dropping $150K on a watch. I am not one of them. And there is also a lot of talk of dining in another part of this forum.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I know Japanese business dress heavily emulates and adopts Western dress norms (the Japanese word for suit is "sabi-ro" -- Saville Row) which has its roots in the Meiji Restoration.

I'll repeat this once more: Japan is changing too. The officewear industry is shifting heavily towards more casual, climate-sensitive clothing:

Japanese men's business wear industry revamps to fit 'new normal'

As suits lose favor, Aoyama and others push telework-easy casual look and masks

asia.nikkei.com

 

[cb200]

@FlyingMonkey Had a meeting with a rep for a Japanese co a few years ago. Had to do a double take at his "suit" as it had three small stripes on it. He looked great and he had just got off the plane. https://www.imn.jp/post/108057196740

 

[RSS]

The real question is whether any of us really want to be respectable.

Years back Vox offered that I shoot for louche. I think he's right in his assessment and I'm fine with it.

 

[Genericuser1]

I shatter your puny theory with my self-absorbed and hugely arrogant belief that I inhabit the uppermost pinnacle of class perfection, about which the entire world of lesser class goodness is forced to revolve and define itself by contrast to such magnificent importance of the sort that ancient bards would sing epic ballads thereof, exhorting even more middling human beings to follow my luxurious example in the hope that they, too, may one day possibly bask in the warm halo of worthiness, propriety, and elegance which both surrounds and imbues me with a peculiar aura of excellent taste, and against the classiness of which all other souls are become pale and wan.

Is that you Loki?

 

[pasadena man]

I shatter your puny theory with my self-absorbed and hugely arrogant belief that I inhabit the uppermost pinnacle of class perfection, about which the entire world of lesser class goodness is forced to revolve and define itself by contrast to such magnificent importance of the sort that ancient bards would sing epic ballads thereof, exhorting even more middling human beings to follow my luxurious example in the hope that they, too, may one day possibly bask in the warm halo of worthiness, propriety, and elegance which both surrounds and imbues me with a peculiar aura of excellent taste, and against the classiness of which all other souls are become pale and wan.

Nice to see someone lean into their sartorial awesomeness, and have a Jimmy Cagney/James Cameron "Top of the world, ma!" moment. Refreshing.