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Courtroom garb

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by SGladwell, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    How much are you facing? This thread sure is pretty unbelievable in my opinion, around here you get a ticket and then you pay the fine and case is closed.
    I don't know how much the fine is that I'm facing, probably a hundred and something $, but I don't want it on my record if possible as I'm assuming my insurance rates will go up and cost me more money in the future.
     
  2. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    How much are you facing? This thread sure is pretty unbelievable in my opinion, around here you get a ticket and then you pay the fine and case is closed.

    The fine isn't the problem, the problem is the points that you get on your record.
     
  3. joseanes

    joseanes Senior member

    Messages:
    141
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    Oct 25, 2004
    Location:
    Marlborough, MA, USA
    I have self contested three traffic violation tickets.
    I do not think clothing has had anything to do with it, however, this is what has happened:

    1) Speeding, 60 in 40mph zone. Dressed with navy blazer, tie, khakis, blue oxford shirt. Cheapest you could have found in everything and probably full of polyester. Asked the police attorney the method for measuring my speed. He said radar and clocked (both). Asked him for how long did the police clocked me. Found: Not Responsible.

    2) Speeding, 80 in 65mph. Dressed with white shirt, navy/gold tie, navy suit.
    Argued: Highway driving, slowest lane, gowing with the flow. Judge said the ticket was with laser gun. Found: Responsible for 70 mph in 65mph zone. No points taken, but a fine of $50.

    3) Traffic light running and failure to use 2 license plates (rear one was there, front one wasn't). Dressed in suit, burgundy tie, white shirt. Argument: policeman was in a lane perpendicular to mine, could not have seen when the light changed from yellow to red. No contest given for the license plate. Found: Responsible for traffic light running, not responsible for the license plate issue. 2 points taken on my record, and a fine of $75.

    I do not know if the way you dress to court has anything to do with it. I think it has more to do with the kind of treatment the judge's wife gave him in the morning. Having very few marks on the record probably helps also.
     
  4. SGladwell

    SGladwell Senior member

    Messages:
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    Mar 11, 2006
    How much are you facing? This thread sure is pretty unbelievable in my opinion, around here you get a ticket and then you pay the fine and case is closed.


    Well, I figure I'll be paying something. I was going about 38-40 in a 30 zone. I have no problems paying for crimes I have committed, even if the law I broke is crap. That's just society. I was not, however, moving at the velocity I was clocked at.

    Also, I want to shine a spotlight on law enforcement incompetence. Instead of going after the dangerous driver, the one attempting to pass from the right and from a turning lane into a regular lane, he profiles that car that looks more likely to have been going faster than the posted limit but who was otherwise following all the rules of the road both codified and implicit.
     
  5. j

    j Senior member Admin

    Messages:
    14,914
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Well, I figure I'll be paying something. I was going about 38-40 in a 30 zone. I have no problems paying for crimes I have committed, even if the law I broke is crap. That's just society. I was not, however, moving at the velocity I was clocked at.

    Also, I want to shine a spotlight on law enforcement incompetence. Instead of going after the dangerous driver, the one attempting to pass from the right and from a turning lane into a regular lane, he profiles that car that looks more likely to have been going faster than the posted limit but who was otherwise following all the rules of the road both codified and implicit.

    Be sure you have all the details down about the other car, the weather at the time, lighting conditions, angle of view and positions of all the cars involved when you were hit (or not) by the radar, etc. Question the cop on this and see if you can trip him up. If you catch the cop not knowing or being wrong about one of these things (as if you could prove that), you may get the case tossed.
     
  6. ATM

    ATM Senior member

    Messages:
    432
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Location:
    Detroit suburbs
    1) Speeding, 60 in 40mph zone. Dressed with navy blazer, tie, khakis, blue oxford shirt. Cheapest you could have found in everything and probably full of polyester. Asked the police attorney the method for measuring my speed. He said radar and clocked (both). Asked him for how long did the police clocked me. Found: Not Responsible.

    2) Speeding, 80 in 65mph. Dressed with white shirt, navy/gold tie, navy suit.
    Argued: Highway driving, slowest lane, gowing with the flow. Judge said the ticket was with laser gun. Found: Responsible for 70 mph in 65mph zone. No points taken, but a fine of $50.

    3) Traffic light running and failure to use 2 license plates (rear one was there, front one wasn't). Dressed in suit, burgundy tie, white shirt. Argument: policeman was in a lane perpendicular to mine, could not have seen when the light changed from yellow to red. No contest given for the license plate. Found: Responsible for traffic light running, not responsible for the license plate issue. 2 points taken on my record, and a fine of $75.

    Aha! [​IMG]
    Blue shirt = no fine
    White shirt = fine
     
  7. j

    j Senior member Admin

    Messages:
    14,914
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Aha! [​IMG]
    Blue shirt = no fine
    White shirt = fine

    I'd better buy a blue shirt! [​IMG]
     
  8. joseanes

    joseanes Senior member

    Messages:
    141
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Location:
    Marlborough, MA, USA
    Even if he was indeed speeding, he has the right constitutional to a fair hearing, and/or trial. It is an undeniable constitutional right that has to be enforced. That is the main reason I go to court on traffic tickets. Around here they give you a 'citation' to go to court, not even a 'fine'. You have the option of refusing going to court and paying a 'fine', but your original right and duty is to go to the 'citation'.

    Besides, the fine is not the end of it. The car insurance is increased for the next few years if he is found responsible. Potentially loosing $1000 to $2000 for one ticket.

    How much are you facing? This thread sure is pretty unbelievable in my opinion, around here you get a ticket and then you pay the fine and case is closed.
     
  9. Briguy

    Briguy Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    I was not, however, moving at the velocity I was clocked at.

    Also, I want to shine a spotlight on law enforcement incompetence. Instead of going after the dangerous driver, the one attempting to pass from the right and from a turning lane into a regular lane, he profiles that car that looks more likely to have been going faster than the posted limit but who was otherwise following all the rules of the road both codified and implicit.


    To have any chance at all, you must know all department policies and procedures, as well as state law, regarding the training and use of police radar. You should question the cop to confirm all policies, procedures, and law were followed. This might include requesting to see copies of any logs maintained during the radars operation, including maintenance logs. You will need to find that the cop did not follow proper procedures, or this particular unit was prone to malfunction, or that the circumstances in which the cop monitored your speed is the same type of situation known to create false readings for that particular type of radar unit.

    BTW I spent six years as a cop. The way radar works is pretty simple. I identify you as speeding, visually estimate your speed, then confirm my speed estimation using the radar gun. The radar unit is tested at the beginning of each shift, and again after each ticket is written. If the unit is malfunctioning, the officer will catch it soon enough to void the ticket.

    Its going to take a lot of work on your part to beat radar. Honestly, I did clock a tree once going 25mph. Fortunately, that was the speed limit on that street, so the tree got away with it.....though....there were many, many times I visually identified a speeder, but the radar either did not lock on, or locked on only after the speeder slowed down, and the speeder got a pass that day. If I had any doubts at all, I did not make the stop.

    Oh, and be polite and respectful. Any hint of attitude and you will be found responsible for GP.
     
  10. Briguy

    Briguy Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Also, I want to shine a spotlight on law enforcement incompetence. Instead of going after the dangerous driver, .

    In my experience, most drivers are operating their 4,000 battering rams while in a complete fog. Many of the people who fought (and lost) tickets I wrote honestly did not realize they were violators, as they were completely daydreaming as they blew the red light, stop sign or whatever.

    Drivers who are daydreaming behind the wheel are very, very dangerous. If my ticket forced them to pay attention, then I prevented a future accident and possibly saved lives.

    Also, people who make a habit of breaking the law tend to do so often, including when they are driving. Many times a stop for a minor violation leads to the arrest of a violent felon with a warrant outstanding, the bust of a drug dealer (plain sight drugs or paraphernalia), well, you get the idea. Timothy McVey was pulled over for speeding when the trooper saw the bulge under his shirt (which was a gun) and arrested him. Cops who write lots of tickets tend to arrest lots of bad guys as a result.
     
  11. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

    Messages:
    8,739
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Location:
    Elizabethtown
    To have any chance at all, you must know all department policies and procedures, as well as state law, regarding the training and use of police radar. You should question the cop to confirm all policies, procedures, and law were followed. This might include requesting to see copies of any logs maintained during the radars operation, including maintenance logs. You will need to find that the cop did not follow proper procedures, or this particular unit was prone to malfunction, or that the circumstances in which the cop monitored your speed is the same type of situation known to create false readings for that particular type of radar unit.

    BTW I spent six years as a cop. The way radar works is pretty simple. I identify you as speeding, visually estimate your speed, then confirm my speed estimation using the radar gun. The radar unit is tested at the beginning of each shift, and again after each ticket is written. If the unit is malfunctioning, the officer will catch it soon enough to void the ticket.

    Its going to take a lot of work on your part to beat radar. Honestly, I did clock a tree once going 25mph. Fortunately, that was the speed limit on that street, so the tree got away with it.....though....there were many, many times I visually identified a speeder, but the radar either did not lock on, or locked on only after the speeder slowed down, and the speeder got a pass that day. If I had any doubts at all, I did not make the stop.

    Oh, and be polite and respectful. Any hint of attitude and you will be found responsible for GP.


    This is exactly why he should hire a lawyer that has experience in these types of matters. It's possible to do all this yourself, but it's kind of complicated if you've never done it before and can end up wasting more time than it's worth.
     
  12. Briguy

    Briguy Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Odereater is right. The folks that do this for a living have the drill down pat.
     

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