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Correct button stance

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by imageWIS, Apr 2, 2005.

  1. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    (water @ April 02 2005,14:37) So, for example, does the middle button on this jacket look too high? [​IMG]
    You sure that's the middle button? Looks like the top to me. And it does indeed look too high.
    Yes, it's the middle button; you can see the rolled upper buttonhole on the lapel. I agree that it is too high. Jon.
     
  2. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Looking again, yes I see. Way too high. Who made that?
     
  3. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    [​IMG] Now really Manton, you have to be living in another century... As knowledgeable you may be about coats, wearing a trousers above natural waist in the 21st century is just an abomination, a fashion crime : trousers should lay on the hips, that's really the most comfortable you can wear. Luc
     
  4. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It is comfortable only in the sense that it is cooler.  I find that my most comfortable trousers are those that sit just above the natural waist, are about 1" too big in the waistband, and are worn with suspenders.  Granted, they are not ideal in August.  But in moderate to cool to cold weather, they are great.

    I hate trousers that sit at the hips.  They shorten the leg line.  Shirt front shows under the waist button of the coat and above the waistband of the trousers.  They just look "bad."  When I wear belts, I get trousers cut to sit a hair below the natural waist, with a very gentle curve upward in the rear waistband.  In order for them not to slip, they need to fit so precisely that the belt is just a decoration. Cinching is just unpleasant.  These are not so comfortable as suspender-rise trousers, but they are better in hot weather.  And they look damn good.  Hard to make, though.
     
  5. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I can't believe I am going to have to agree with Manton here, to some degree. I think that it depends on the cut of the suit. Certainly, on the suits I favour and own, all of which have slim jackets and flat front, slim pants, the pants are menat to be worn on the hips. On "classic" suits, though, pants should sit *just* below the natural waist. I recommend such suits to men who were alive for more than half of the last century, and to fat men in general. For all younger, fitter men, I suggest more modern cut suits.
     
  6. water

    water Senior member

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    It is a three-piece Isaia suit.
     
  7. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    LAG : yeah, to some degree. If you have a flat stomach, there is no need to wear a high rise pants. Now, you can have a flat stomach at 50 [​IMG] Manton, flat front trousers (of course, I always meant flat front : pleated trousers are not to stay on the hips, it just doesn't look right) don't need a belt either to fall perfectly [​IMG] Ah well, it depends on the cut, and your figure, that's what all this forum is about : point is, I don't think ImageWIS is old enough to wear a high rise pleated trousers with suspenders [​IMG] Luc
     
  8. kolecho

    kolecho Senior member

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    Manton,

    May I ask what you mean by "a very gentle curve upward in the rear waistband"? I am interested to tailor some trousers that sit high but without a belt.

    Would you have any pictures or sketch to shwo what you mean?
     
  9. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sorry, I don't have any pics.  Most belt-trousers are made like this to some degree, however.  By "gentle curve" I mean that the waistband is maybe 1.5" higher in back.  When you're wearing the trousers, you wouldn't even notice.  If you laid them out flat along the creases, it would be readily apparent, however.

    But a curved waistband is not enough.  The trousers also have to have a perfect rise, and be perfectly fitted through the hips.  To make "suspender-less" trousers that fit at (or just below) the waist, don't slip to the hips, and don't feel tight in the waistband, upper thigh or seat is hard to do.  If you find a tailor who can do it, be nice to him.
     
  10. kolecho

    kolecho Senior member

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    Manton,

    I will keep that design in mind when I order the next pair of pants.

    Back to button stance:
    I can imagine instances where the lowest button and hip pockets might not line up after button point and coat length are determined.

    Is it preferable to line up hip pockets and lowest button?

    What about the height of side vents? I understand that they also reach the same line if hip pockets and button point line up. Where should side vents end if those two don't line up?
     
  11. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I prefer it.  But it can look odd (the pockets will look too high) if the bottom button is too close to the waist button.  But if the bottom button is properly spaced (at least 4.5") then the pockets should look fine.  On short guys, lower is better.  It helps present a slight illusion of greater height.

    10 - 11" is a decent rule of thumb for side vents, 10" (maybe slightly less) for the really short and 11" for the really tall.  Any more looks like a trap door; any less looks like a "fashion designer" coat.  Wrinkly cloths like linen and cotton sometimes take shorter (8" - 9") vents, as this helps the coat's back resist wrinkling just a bit.  Some don't like the look; I certainly would not get this length on wool, but on linen and cotton it looks less "designer" and more "casual."  At least it does to me.
     
  12. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    We can't be having this, huh [​IMG] Cheers.
     
  13. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    In jeanswear, we call this a "contoured" waistband.
     
  14. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I am not magnanimous enough to admit publicly that it is possible to learn anything from jeanswear terminology. Privately, after a couple of drinks, maybe ...
     

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