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Cool vs Stylish

Nobilis Animus

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Probably, from a causal point of view. But from a justificatory point of view one need only look around. Though, admittedly, one does see these estate agent types wearing slim dark wool trousers, tan derbies, a spread collar shirt and a thin, tight navy crewneck--I grant you that's not geriatric because of fit and colours, but it is a terrible look, reeking of the grubbiest aspects of the business world.
Fascinating. I can see why you'd see it that way, given your description, but I was absolutely not imagining that picture at all.

My execution of this generally ends up looking like the fellow on the right (footwear either loafers or boots):

grade-3.jpg

I prefer finely-knit crewnecks with a closer cut - admittedly so that they show off my build better. I'll grant that a lot of people end up looking bad with it, but that's probably due to a bad choice of materials. Most that I see are wearing flimsy-looking trousers, horrible shoes, and a cheap shirt. Blegh.
 

radicaldog

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Fascinating. I can see why you'd see it that way, given your description, but I was absolutely not imagining that picture at all.

My execution of this generally ends up looking like the fellow on the right (footwear either loafers or boots):

View attachment 1670109

I prefer finely-knit crewnecks with a closer cut - admittedly so that they show off my build better. I'll grant that a lot of people end up looking bad with it, but that's probably due to a bad choice of materials. Most that I see are wearing flimsy-looking trousers, horrible shoes, and a cheap shirt. Blegh.
What sort of trousers is the dude in the red sweater wearing? Uncreased donegal tweed? That's very retro in 2021, and comparable to a chino formality-wise. Regular, pressed wool trousers would give off a very conservative vibe to me, even if not old mannish. It's just not something I'd want, but to each their own.

Anyhow, so long as you don't look like the high school comedy villain on the left with the pink sweater over his shoulder, I guess you're ok.
 

Nobilis Animus

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What sort of trousers is the dude in the red sweater wearing? Uncreased donegal tweed? That's very retro in 2021, and comparable to a chino formality-wise. Regular, pressed wool trousers would give off a very conservative vibe to me, even if not old mannish. It's just not something I'd want, but to each their own.

Anyhow, so long as you don't look like the high school comedy villain on the left with the pink sweater over his shoulder, I guess you're ok.
It's hard to tell from the photo. They could be more casual than I imagine, but to me they look like slim, charcoal flannels in need of a pressing.

I guess it's a bit retro, but it's worth noting that I also thought I was looking a bit old-ish in that combo until one of my friends (female) pointed out how she thought it looked cool. Now I'm not sure which it is anymore, so I just don't care.
 

Hellbent

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What sort of trousers is the dude in the red sweater wearing? Uncreased donegal tweed? That's very retro in 2021, and comparable to a chino formality-wise. Regular, pressed wool trousers would give off a very conservative vibe to me, even if not old mannish. It's just not something I'd want, but to each their own.

Would you prefer chino here? For me chino is no mans land. Impossible to dress up in order to look truly elegant. And not casual enough, like jeans, to be able to create an interest by contrast.

A chino can of course be dressier if made in a more tailored cut. Though I still feel they fall short of a pair of wool flannels, elegance wise that is. But I do concur that the look ends up a bit more conservative with wool. Something I don‘t necessarily mind.
 

radicaldog

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Impossible to dress up in order to look truly elegant
See, for me this equivalence between dressing up and elegance just doesn’t hold. I’m not going to attempt to define elegance right now, but one thing it does require is appropriateness to context. And so it follows that being dressed up doesn’t always lead to elegance, given that there are many, many casual contexts these days.
 

radicaldog

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I guess it's a bit retro, but it's worth noting that I also thought I was looking a bit old-ish in that combo until one of my friends (female) pointed out how she thought it looked cool. Now I'm not sure which it is anymore, so I just don't care.
Assuming the trousers are crumpled flannel, I think the right pair of somewhat incongruous sneakers (vintage runners, say) might just save that outfit for my dressing goals. Or maybe even beat-up unlined desert boots, crepe soles. But still, very retro.
 

Phileas Fogg

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See, for me this equivalence between dressing up and elegance just doesn’t hold. I’m not going to attempt to define elegance right now, but one thing it does require is appropriateness to context. And so it follows that being dressed up doesn’t always lead to elegance, given that there are many, many casual contexts these days.
given that to some “dressed up” is anything other than wearing sweatpants and a hockey jersey, the term dressed up needs some reorientation.
 

radicaldog

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given that to some “dressed up” is anything other than wearing sweatpants and a hockey jersey, the term dressed up needs some reorientation.
OK but here we were talking about the difference between chinos and flannels so I think we’re safely within your boundaries.
 

Hellbent

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See, for me this equivalence between dressing up and elegance just doesn’t hold. I’m not going to attempt to define elegance right now, but one thing it does require is appropriateness to context. And so it follows that being dressed up doesn’t always lead to elegance, given that there are many, many casual contexts these days.
Oh that‘s not what I meant. Not necessarily dressing up. Elegance when it comes to trousers, for me at least, means at least that the fabric falls around the legs more than it sits. A pair of chino tend to be more like jeans in that regard.

EDIT: And trousers need to accommodate over the calf socks, the alpha and omega of elegance.
 

comrade

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"And trousers need to accommodate over the calf socks, the alpha and omega of elegance."

I had no idea that you had removed spats from your rotation. Pity
 

radicaldog

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Oh that‘s not what I meant. Not necessarily dressing up. Elegance when it comes to trousers, for me at least, means at least that the fabric falls around the legs more than it sits. A pair of chino tend to be more like jeans in that regard.
Sweatpants fall around the leg.

EDIT: And trousers need to accommodate over the calf socks, the alpha and omega of elegance.
I can't imagine what trousers wouldn't, running lycra ones excepted. Also, fwiw, probably due to my Italian upbringing until very recently I didn't contemplate any socks other than OTC except when exercising. But I have to say recently I've started to occasionally wear vintage-style sports socks with some casual outfits. Though I confess that often I prefer vintage-style OTC sports socks just to be on the safe side.
 

Mirage-

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Sweatpants fall around the leg.



I can't imagine what trousers wouldn't, running lycra ones excepted. Also, fwiw, probably due to my Italian upbringing until very recently I didn't contemplate any socks other than OTC except when exercising. But I have to say recently I've started to occasionally wear vintage-style sports socks with some casual outfits. Though I confess that often I prefer vintage-style OTC sports socks just to be on the safe side.
I actually switched to OTC socks fairly recently (except for summer), and I am 100% italian. And the main thing that was stopping me was exactly that my slim chinos would get caught on them. Since then I've been trying to get a slightly larger cut, in fact I never cared for it to be so slim, it's just that I was looking for a good fit in the waist over leg because I didn't bother with alterations except, begrudgingly, for the length.
Now I might size up instead, but then I have to take in the waist of literally everything I buy, since italian brands are all very slim in the leg compared to waist.
 

radicaldog

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I actually switched to OTC socks fairly recently (except for summer), and I am 100% italian. And the main thing that was stopping me was exactly that my slim chinos would get caught on them. Since then I've been trying to get a slightly larger cut, in fact I never cared for it to be so slim, it's just that I was looking for a good fit in the waist over leg because I didn't bother with alterations except, begrudgingly, for the length.
Now I might size up instead, but then I have to take in the waist of literally everything I buy, since italian brands are all very slim in the leg compared to waist.
Indeed, I would hazard the guess that your chinos were a little too slim.

And also, sorry, but I can't help myself: summer is no excuse for short socks (other than sports socks). Just think of the expression mezza calzetta. Go sockless when you can, and wear proper socks when you need to wear socks. This may be the one thing where I'm quite dogmatic.
 

Mirage-

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Indeed, I would hazard the guess that your chinos were a little too slim.

And also, sorry, but I can't help myself: summer is no excuse for short socks (other than sports socks). Just think of the expression mezza calzetta. Go sockless when you can, and wear proper socks when you need to wear socks. This may be the one thing where I'm quite dogmatic.
I don't wear short as in ankle socks, I wear low-cut socks, like most people here in Italy. Not *really* invisible but I don't care tbh, they're fine with sneakers imo. For boat shoes or loafers I'd go sockless indeed.
And yes, the chinos were indeed too slim, though not skinny honestly. Still, not roomy enough for OTC socks to be comfortable, they'd usually get caught when standing up or sitting down (also because chinos are unlined).
 

Sir Jack II

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But you can’t wear OTC socks outside of a suit. It just looks all wrong and is contrary to tradition. I welcome lengthy arguments on this subject. We’ll exchange a lot of ambiguous photos.
/ducks
 

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