Cool vs Stylish

[radicaldog]

University types I knew in the 80s wore miners "Donkey Jackets" to try and look more authentically working class, I was an apprentice mechanic (from a mining area) at the time and found it a bit weird that rich kids from the south thought it was cool ??

I had even less understanding of politics than I do now!!!!!

Well that's precisely it. I mean, think of a typical upper middle class (selective) state school kid with highly educated parents who goes to Oxbridge for undergrad. He thinks he's there on merit alone and to reinforce that he goes to great lengths to differentiate himself from the public school toffs, even though he has more in common with them than with 90% of the British population. Hence no Barbour. Whereas often a kid with fairly wealthy but not terribly well-educated parents who goes to Durham or St Andrews from a second rate public school does aspire to be like the toffs, hence Barbour. Among the toffs themselves there's a lot of variation, but then they're a tiny group. Does any of these kids think of these choices in terms of what's cool? Probably not, come to think of it. British people have other priorities.

 

[radicaldog]

I’m just curious, is this something that is unique to Britain?

Pretty much, in my perception. Though of course a lot of continentals study in Britain, or used to, so there are reverberations of this across Europe. In the US I would guess it gets drowned out by more powerful signals, or just by distance.

 

[yorkshire pud]

Well that's precisely it. I mean, think of a typical upper middle class (selective) state school kid with highly educated parents who goes to Oxbridge for undergrad. He thinks he's there on merit alone and to reinforce that he goes to great lengths to differentiate himself from the public school toffs, even though he has more in common with them than with 90% of the British population. Hence no Barbour. Whereas often a kid with fairly wealthy but not terribly well-educated parents who goes to Durham or St Andrews from a second rate public school does aspire to be like the toffs, hence Barbour. Among the toffs themselves there's a lot of variation, but then they're a tiny group. Does any of these kids think of these choices in terms of what's cool? Probably not, come to think of it. British people have other priorities.

Oh, I think all young Brits are obsessive with style/cool (you only have to look at the music and subcultures) I agree that the lines are more blurred than in the USA because of the class system, which I agree is nothing to aspire to.

 

[radicaldog]

I still can't see any "cool" in any political ideology left or right???

This is very geographically variable. Exhibit A: mid-century France. The coolness of a Camus or Sartre is inseparable from their politics.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Oh, I think all young Brits are obsessive with style/cool (you only have to look at the music and subcultures) I agree that the lines are more blurred than in the USA because of the class system, which I agree is nothing to aspire to.

we have our own class system here. It’s more related to education and profession.

For example, college educated professionals will wear Barbour. Non-college, blue collar types will typically stick with Carhartt. Although, “blue collar chic” does make its way into the stylistic choices of the former, hence why neiman’s would sell Wolverine boots and at point even Red Wings. One normally doesn’t see the reverse though.

College educated? You wear lululemon. High school? You wear underarmour.

it’s less rigid of course, but I think every society in its own way finds a way to separate people according to some sort of socioeconomic class system.

 

[mak1277]

we have our own class system here. It’s more related to education and profession.

For example, college educated professionals will wear Barbour. Non-college, blue collar types will typically stick with Carhartt. Although, “blue collar chic” does make its way into the stylistic choices of the former, hence why neiman’s would sell Wolverine boots and at point even Red Wings. One normally doesn’t see the reverse though.

College educated? You wear lululemon. High school? You wear underarmour.

it’s less rigid of course, but I think every society in its own way finds a way to separate people according to some sort of socioeconomic class system.

This is just about cost, though, isn't it? I mean, do you really know people who won't wear underarmour because they're "above it" or something? I mean, I have a Masters and own UA but would never buy lululemon.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

This is just about cost, though, isn't it? I mean, do you really know people who won't wear underarmour because they're "above it" or something? I mean, I have a Masters and own UA but would never buy lululemon.

yes, absolutely! To the extent we have a class system here it’s all income and cultural background based.

That’s why I said it’s not that rigid. If your Becky from Winnetka you’re going to be wearing lululemon.

 

[yorkshire pud]

we have our own class system here. It’s more related to education and profession.

For example, college educated professionals will wear Barbour. Non-college, blue collar types will typically stick with Carhartt. Although, “blue collar chic” does make its way into the stylistic choices of the former, hence why neiman’s would sell Wolverine boots and at point even Red Wings. One normally doesn’t see the reverse though.

College educated? You wear lululemon. High school? You wear underarmour.

it’s less rigid of course, but I think every society in its own way finds a way to separate people according to some sort of socioeconomic class system.

My other half actually lived in the USA for twenty years, so I do know a little bit about the class differences.

USA sent a farm boy to the moon, We have a Royal Family ??

I wear a Barbour, Submariner (British style of roll neck sweater) , Danner boots and Levis in the winter, in my eyes those kind of clothes all work as a cohesive outfit as they are all workwear to me

 

[FlyingMonkey]

This is very geographically variable. Exhibit A: mid-century France. The coolness of a Camus or Sartre is inseparable from their politics.

To be fair there are some cool rightwingers - Yukio Mishima, for example, the Japanese author and nationalist / imperialist.

But in general, I would argue that coolness is much more to be found on the political left than the right - however that's also far from saying that being left is cool or at that being left is enough to be cool. Not at all.

 

[Sir Jack II]

Apolticism is the coolest.

 

[ValidusLA]

But in general, I would argue that coolness is much more to be found on the political left than the right - however that's also far from saying that being left is cool or at that being left is enough to be cool. Not at all.

I would hazard to guess a large majority of conservatives who are considered cool are silent in their conservatism.

 

[Sir Jack II]

Independent thought (and style) and aloofness from large, powerful groups (whether the right or left) has to be a criterion for cool, I think.

 

[VegasRebel]

I would hazard to guess a large majority of conservatives who are considered cool are silent in their conservatism.

"Large majority" is probably right, but Clint Eastwood, Ted Nugent, Kid Rock, Mel Gibson and, of course ... Chuck Norris, were all considered cool at some point, if not now.

 

[ValidusLA]

"Large majority" is probably right, but Clint Eastwood, Ted Nugent, Kid Rock, Mel Gibson and, of course ... Chuck Norris, were all considered cool at some point, if not now.

They were mostly considered cool before their politics became central to their image.

Generally entertainment is so left that being conservative within it almost precludes being cool.

Also I don't think poor Clint Eastwood should be lumped with the rest of those guys.

 

[VegasRebel]

Also I don't think poor Clint Eastwood should be lumped with the rest of those guys.

Because he wasn't cool (as Dirty Harry?) or because he wasn't conservative (when he was talking to a chair?)

True, though, that none of them were cool because they were conservative (maybe Clint excepted, though that was more his characters than his personal politics.)