Cool furniture, design objects and desiderata

[beargonefishing]

#3) MaFooFan could be the only surviving grandchild of Fan Li, or he could be one of many. We don't know. Nobody gives a flying ****.

Minor edit.

 

[qubed]

Spoiler

I think @imatlas is struggling with the English language and basic logic:

#1) He repeatedly conflated the phrase "direct descendant," being a grandchild of somebody, with being somebody's "descendant," having at least a smidgeon of a person's blood.

#2) Atlas & Co. then completely reversed course, providing the SF community with a hypothetical ancestral family that breeds like rabbits. This is actually a more coherent argument, but still flawed. While such an ancestral breeding history is possible, and has more or less been documented via contemporary DNA testing, it is not at all common. Genghis Kahn comes to mind (1 in to 200 people in the world are his direct descendent, but whereas MaFooFan is legally recognized as Fan Li's grandson, the vast majority of Genghis Kahn's descendants essentially form so-called bastard branches).

Hence, using the model of a famous personage having ten children who he recognized, and then survived to adulthood, and then each go on to have children of their own whom they recognize, and so on and so on, is not how human reproduction typically works. We can just as well as assume that Fan Li had one officially recognized son who reproduced who then had one grandson who reproduced and so on...Being recognized is important because it means you're an actual part of the family: its history, culture, and any remaining lands and wealth are your birth right.

#3) MaFooFan could be the only surviving grandchild of Fan Li, or he could be one of many. We don't know.

#4) Think of your own bloodlines. How many direct descendants do your great-great grandfathers have now? Documented bloodlines often ebb and flow. It requires people to survive past childhood, reproduce, recognize the offspring as their own, and then write it all down in a book somewhere. MaFooFan is an official son and heir to Fan Li. Even if he were a bastard descendant of Genghis Kahn, one of the most prolific breeders on the planet Earth, it still is noteworthy in passing.

#5) With so much flame material at hand, this ancestor/titty bit is THE ABSOLUTE WEAKEST.

This is going to be my final message on this topic, because it's getting tedious, no one cares anymore, and I can't make it any simpler and yet you still fail to grasp the basic argument.

#1) These are the same on the scale of 2500 years. Being a direct descendent, descendent, or having a smidgeon of someone's dna are all the same on that scale.

#2) With exponential math, the number of children you have is basically inconsequential to the theoretical number of descendants (assuming it didn't die out). Assume 90 generations at 2 children each, and you have 1.2 x 10 ^ 27 possible children. At 10 children per generation it's 1 x 10 ^ 90. At those numbers, we've long, long passed the number of actual humans living.

Again, I'm not talking about "recognized" descendants. I'm talking about actual ones. The same reason while there's only been one official monarch of England throughout the centuries, yet somehow almost every US President is a descendant of John, King of England

#3) We do know. He is one of millions, probably a billion. Because we know how exponential math and pedigree collapse works.


Here are some papers explaining what we have said, the first two are math theory, and the 3rd one verifying through genetics that most europeans share the same set of ancestors from 1000 years ago:

http://www.stat.yale.edu/~jtc5/papers/Ancestors.pdf

http://www.stat.yale.edu/~jtc5/papers/CommonAncestors/NatureCommonAncestors-Article.pdf

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555&type=printable

 

[TheFoo]

Guys. If you thought I was bragging about lineage or trying to assert some sort of prestige, then let me say again: you ******* morons. It was meant to be an amusing personal anecdote relating to a tit-shaped teapot. It is not a material point worth debating.

That said, to me, this reveals a lot about the folks constantly assailing everything I write with this sort of drudging idiocy. Why get soooooooo upset at the mere suggestion I might have an interesting or important lineage? Come on. Does not take a psychology degree to figure that one out.

By the way, the Fan family is very, very big. I am sure there are millions with the “Fan” name in Asia. But as some others have noted, what is interesting about my particular family (or branch thereof, I guess?) is the ability to trace its lineage back to Fan Li in a direct fashion and many other important historical figures over the past 2,500+ years. Should that matter to you? I don’t know or really care. But it is part of my family story and culture, so it is important to me. It also happened to relate to the topic I was discussing here. So what the **** is the problem?

 

[double00]

also: i've heard enough stories of *mistaken* lineage that i basically don't trust grandmothers anymore. all those $20 bills were just a giant distraction.

 

[qubed]

That said, to me, this reveals a lot about the folks constantly assailing everything I write with this sort of drudging idiocy. Why get soooooooo upset at the mere suggestion I might have an interesting or important lineage? Come on. Does not take a psychology degree to figure that one out.

No one is upset here, you're just the one inferring it. Maybe that reveals more about you that the rest of us.

 

[beargonefishing]

I like how that was all done unironically.

 

[GeneralEmployer]

"Members of the Fàn family continue to thrive across a variety of different domains."

(Source Wikipedia)

Fan (surname) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TheFoo]

No one is upset here, you're just the one inferring it. Maybe that reveals more about you that the rest of us.

Then why waste so much breath arguing about the significance of something whose significance is immaterial to the topic of discussion?

One percent of you are in this thread to talk about its intended subject. The rest? ******* noise. Sad.

I like how that was all done unironically.

What is there to be ironic about? Irony is a tool deployed when in a position of weakness.

"Members of the Fàn family continue to thrive across a variety of different domains."

(Source Wikipedia)

Fan (surname) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Funny thing is the Fan Li connection was only relatively recently conveyed to me. I knew generally about my family’s heritage, but I was always taught about various important prime ministers, scholars, poets, etc., and not the second most important progenitor of the line.

There were some bad dudes in there too. I didn’t learn about them until later either. Like the cowardly admiral who was one of the only to survive the failed 13th century naval invasion of Japan. There was also a prime minister who defected from serving the Song emperor when it became clear the Mongols would prevail.

 

[beargonefishing]

What is there to be ironic about? Irony is a tool deployed when in a position of weakness.

This is fantastic.

 

[qubed]

Then why waste so much breath arguing about the significance of something whose significance is immaterial to the topic of discussion?

Because duty calls.

 

[edinatlanta]

This is fantastic.

You are: roasted, toasted and BURNT TO A CRISP!

 

[NorCal]

Then why waste so much breath arguing about the significance of something whose significance is immaterial to the topic of discussion?

One percent of you are in this thread to talk about its intended subject. The rest? ******* noise. Sad.

The fact that you can type this without a hint of irony is amazing. It really captures what makes Foo, Foo.

 

[TheFoo]

Just noticed this very nice imperial Ru Yao bowl in “Sky After the Rain” blue auctioned by Christie’s in 2018 for $7.3M. Only four inches in diameter.

 

[edinatlanta]

Just noticed this very nice imperial Ru Yao bowl in “Sky After the Rain” blue auctioned by Christie’s in 2018 for $7.3M. Only four inches in diameter.

View attachment 1396062

View attachment 1396063

View attachment 1396064

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Looks the same as yours, tbh.

 

[TheFoo]

@Foo

If you like Ru ware I can highly recommend the Sir Percival David collection in the British museum. It is the most valuable collection of Chinese ceramics, including Ru ware, in the world and is presented in a beautifully curated and lit room that is often empty. If you’ve only seen the collections in Taipei and Beijing so far you’ll be stunned not just by the quality of the pieces but the presentation.

I thought this was a curious claim but just recently stumbled on information that clearly dispels it. Unsurprisingly, the National Palace Museum in Taiwan has the largest collection of imperial Ru Yao in the world, with 21 pieces. The British Museum is number two, with 17 pieces (including the Percival collection). The Beijing Palace Museum is third with 15 pieces. The Shanghai Museum has 8 pieces. After that, it’s a big drop-off. Any other museum is lucky to have a single example.

The Percival collection is extremely impressive and important, but I find it highly unlikely that it can compare favorably versus the collections in the Beijing and Taiwan Palace Museums, which directly inherited the imperial holdings. Much of the art and artifacts in those two museums are simply priceless.