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GeneralEmployer

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Whenever Foo is en fuego, I really start going off the rails. It's my Mediterranean blood. Is it possible to me in 1 week TO?
 

TheFoo

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For even though in Nietzsche God' death is a fait accompli, there is the nagging question of whether or not this is a good thing. We need to go back and see WHY WE KILLED GOD. Would we do it again if we had the chance?
This is not quite right. The more fundamental question for any understanding of Nietzsche is not why people “killed” God, but rather: what sort of person are you and how does the non-existence of God matter to you specifically?

The most basic error in reading Nietzche is to assume he is addressing everyone. He is not. He is addressing “higher” men, for the most part. For them, the death of God is a relief and opportunity—and why he is dead is not particularly interesting.
 
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GeneralEmployer

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This is not quite right. The more fundamental question for any understanding of Nietzsche is not why people “killed” God, but rather: what sort of person are you and how does the non-existence of God matter to you specifically?

The most basic error in reading Nietzche is to assume he is addressing everyone. He is not. He is addressing “higher” men, for the most part. For them, the death of God is a relief and opportunity—and why he is dead is not particularly interesting.
Yes, I happen to agree here, and I'm glad I was at least somewhat wrong about the decline of your mental faculties. In truth, I was trying to set up a joke that I wound up aborting because nobody likes my jokes except people who are banned.

I will point out that in a broader sense, especially in his earlier work, Nietzsche does express concern of what the death of God, and by extension Christianity, means for civilization. He feels most people cannot handle the truth, and that this is may be a problem. Nietzsche is not exclusively focused upon the higher man until he reaches a certain point in his work. While he may be addressing a certain audience throughout his oeuvre, and he's excited at what the death of God means for this audience, he does express serious concern that stupid people will not be able to share his personal boundless optimism.

My thoughts are based off of hazy recollections, and we'll need to pull multiple quotes to get to the bottom of this. I'm not opposed if seriously pisses everyone off and completely derails this threak.

Do you still have your thesis? May you regale us with a choice passage?
 

TheFoo

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Yes, I happen to agree here, and I'm glad I was at least somewhat wrong about the decline of your mental faculties. In truth, I was trying to set up a joke that I wound up aborting because nobody likes my jokes except people who are banned.

I will point out that in a broader sense, especially in his earlier work, Nietzsche does express concern of what the death of God, and by extension Christianity, means for civilization. He feels most people cannot handle the truth, and that this is may be a problem. Nietzsche is not exclusively focused upon the higher man until he reaches a certain point in his work. While he may be addressing a certain audience throughout his oeuvre, and he's excited at what the death of God means for this audience, he does express serious concern that stupid people will not be able to share his personal boundless optimism.

My thoughts are based off of hazy recollections, and we'll need to pull multiple quotes to get to the bottom of this. I'm not opposed if seriously pisses everyone off and completely derails this threak.

Do you still have your thesis? May you regale us with a choice passage?
I’m not sure that he is “concerned” with stupid people. He simply argues that the prevailing slave morality of the Western world suits their weakness and they are ill-equipped to cope when that morality is undermined. This is not necessarily a bad thing to Nietzsche. Unshackled from this same slave morality, “higher” humanity can create new things and lead the world to a better place.

Girard is but a derivative, less potent shadow of Nietzsche. His mimetic theory is fundamentally flawed: we cannot assume that group cohesion is the only driver of desire, as powerful as it may be. In contrast, Nietzsche’s very brilliance is in recognizing that there is a fundamental error in assuming that all people are similar enough to live happily under a single value system. If Girard had studied Nietzsche more, maybe he would have gone further with his own work.

How does this apply to discussing design? Well, whether with respect to Nietzsche or Girard, herd-like mentality is a very bad thing that needs to be defeated. Impulsively shouting down unfamiliar or alien ideas re-inforces herd thinking, as it is only as credible as the social standing of the heckler. It is up to the more intelligent, creative, and independent-minded to disrupt the slavish norms of the group and light the path to better things.

My college thesis was about Nietzschean political theory. It argued that Nietsche’s philosophy would favor an individual rights-maximizing political system as the lesser of evils, as autocracies and monarchies enforce artificial and rigid caste systems that hinder “higher”-type individualists.
 
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HORNS

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Check out Foo's new toilet:

1615007742204.png
 

imatlas

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This is the complete script of a skit from our college Midnight Theatre “talent night”.
It was called “Humanities Seminar”.

Picture 6 people seated in a circle speaking in turn:

“Me”

“Me”

“Me”

“Me”

“Me”

“Me...and Nietzsche”.



* Humanities Seminar was a core curriculum requirement for everyone so we all got the joke
 
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GeneralEmployer

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...My college thesis was about Nietzschean political theory. It argued that Nietsche’s philosophy would favor an individual rights-maximizing political system as the lesser of evils, as autocracies and monarchies enforce artificial and rigid caste systems that hinder “higher”-type individualists.
TBF, Nietzsche doesn't really have a political theory: “Only where the state ends, there begins the human being who is not superfluous” (Thus Spoke Zarathrusta I:11). Seems like a very challenging thesis because you'd have to comb all of his work for scraps. Then, you'd need to speculate to a large degree. Also, even basic claim like Nietzsche would favor "an individual rights-maximizing political system" is problematical: Nietzsche didn't care a fig for people's right to be stupid or wrong. The right to be stupid or wrong is a big part of a rights-maximizing system.
 
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GeneralEmployer

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This is the complete script of a skit from our college Midnight Theatre “talent night”.
It was called “Humanities Seminar”.

Picture 6 people seated in a circle speaking in turn:

“Me”

“Me”

“Me”

“Me”

“Me”

“Me, and Nietzsche”.



* Humanities Seminar was a core curriculum requirement for everyone so we all got the joke
Core curriculum? Somebody isn't a Brown alumnus.

* Only two poasters will get this joke, and only one will find it funny: "Me."
 

imatlas

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Brown? Pshht. No second tier Ivy for me.
 

NakedYoga

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Sounds like a backup school.
 

TheFoo

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TBF, Nietzsche doesn't really have a political theory: “Only where the state ends, there begins the human being who is not superfluous” (Thus Spoke Zarathrusta I:11). Seems like a very challenging thesis because you'd have to comb all of his work for scraps. Then, you'd need to speculate to a large degree. Also, even basic claim like Nietzsche would favor "an individual rights-maximizing political system" is problematical: Nietzsche didn't care a fig for people's right to be stupid or wrong. The right to be stupid or wrong is a big part of a rights-maximizing system.
If Nietzsche had formulated a political theory, I wouldn’t have needed to write my thesis on what it would be!

It was indeed very challenging. “[Combing] all his work for scraps” was part of the project, but the less interesting part. At Brown, all continental philosophy was taught through an analytical lens—rather than merely read Nietzsche and interpret him, we tried to distill the best and strongest logic-driven, systematic formulations of his ideas and then critique them. In other words, we were not so much interested in what Nietzsche himself meant to say, but instead the most compelling philosophical arguments that could be extracted from his writing.

Hence, my thesis wasn’t really about putting puzzle pieces together to guess at Nietzsche’s own political theory, but focused on deducing the sort of political system that most accords with a systematic understanding of his views on morality, psychology, and the human condition.

However, one “scrap” that was particularly helpful is his cutting assault on caste systems. Unlike his other political musings, he very clearly argued for why the “higher” type of human being cannot thrive in such a social structure, as the very fundamental nature of such individuals is that we cannot predict who they will be.
 
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GeneralEmployer

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However, one “scrap” that was particularly helpful is his cutting assault on caste systems. Unlike his other political musings, he very clearly argued for why the “higher” type of human being cannot thrive in such a social structure, as the very fundamental nature of such individuals is that we cannot predict who they will be.
Wait...say wha? Nietzsche was ga-ga over Manu, and viewed the caste system as an expression of natural law. Further, Nietzsche did feel one could predict "the very fundamental nature of...individuals vis-a-vis a breeding system.

I think there's enough contradictions in his work where you could argue Nietzsche was simply joking or exaggerating or these passages were not the final analysis. But it seems to me that you used the best evidence against your case as evidence for it.

On another note, one of my ALL TIME FAVORITE LITERARY HEROES purposefully misinterpreted Nietzsche in order to survive. As he put it, he used Nietzsche "for his own purposes." So, is not fitting then, that my all ALL TIME SF HERO has done the same?
 

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