cooking question

[GQgeek]

I cooked french onion soup last night and I was curious about one of the steps. After the onions have been caramelized, the recipe says to cook them with flour on medium heat for 3 minutes. What is the purpose of this?

 

[Stax]

it's a thickening agent

 

[spence]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

I cooked french onion soup last night and I was curious about one of the steps. After the onions have been caramelized, the recipe says to cook them with flour on medium heat for 3 minutes. What is the purpose of this?
The flour will blend with the fat you're cooking the onions in to make a roux...which needs to be cooked a bit to maximize the thickening potential. It's a very important step!

-spence

 

[horton]

What he ^ said. Otherwise you'll have too much oil float to the surface. A few glistening drops is okay, but if it's a film then people will have to eat through the fat before they get to the stock

 

[GQgeek]

But the next step is to pour in excess water which you then reduce over a period of an hour as you cook the onions with the broth and bouquet garni... Surely this counteracts any thickening the flour has done?

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by horton

What he ^ said. Otherwise you'll have too much oil float to the surface. A few glistening drops is okay, but if it's a film then people will have to eat through the fat before they get to the stock

Ah ok, that makes sense. Thanks horton.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by horton

What he ^ said. Otherwise you'll have too much oil float to the surface. A few glistening drops is okay, but if it's a film then people will have to eat through the fat before they get to the stock
No, the other answers are correct. As the liquid simmers over time the roux thickens the liquid and the fat and impuruties in the flour rise to the top to be skimmed off. All that remains of the flour is the pure starch. Nowadays roux is rarely used anymore, but Onion Soup is not a nowadays recipe.

 

[spence]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

But the next step is to pour in excess water which you then reduce over a period of an hour as you cook the onions with the broth and bouquet garni... Surely this counteracts any thickening the flour has done?
You probably already figured this out...but the water will mix with the base to create the soup...and the roux will thicken all of that to get the consistancy you want.

-spence

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by spence

You probably already figured this out...but the water will mix with the base to create the soup...and the roux will thicken all of that to get the consistancy you want.

-spence

I do understand this. It just seems like such a small amount of flour that it wouldn't make much difference.

I'm taking a recipe for 6 and down-sizing it to 2. Off the top of my head, if you divide the indgredients accordingly, that makes .5 tbsp of flour four what started as approx. 2-2.5 pounds of onions.

Of course, adjusting proportions of ingredients for fewer servings doesn't seem to be as exact a science, which is why i always give a new recipe test runs before serving it to anyone.

 

[spence]

Be careful when scaling down...the ratio's don't always stay linear!

Additionally the smaller you go the less room for error. I'd make the batch for 6 and save the rest for leftovers

-spence

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by spence

Be careful when scaling down...the ratio's don't always stay linear!

Additionally the smaller you go the less room for error. I'd make the batch for 6 and save the rest for leftovers

-spence

Ya... I've noticed that with other recipes but it's something you have to consider on a case-by-case basis.. I only started to cook "seriously" around november so i've still got a lot to learn through experience.

It's too bad scaling-down isn't as simple as maintaining molar ratios in chemistry though. That would make cooking easy.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

Ya... I've noticed that with other recipes but it's something you have to consider on a case-by-case basis.. I only started to cook "seriously" around november so i've still got a lot to learn through experience.

It's too bad scaling-down isn't as simple as maintaining molar ratios in chemistry though. That would make cooking easy.
Well, there are a lot of ways that you could get around this. As onions and water are cheap, you could always just make a full order. You could omit the flour and use beurre manie or cornstarch (arrowroot etc) at the end to achieve the desired consistancy. You could use chicken or beef stock instead of water which will obviate the need for the thickener.

 

[Jared]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

Ya... I've noticed that with other recipes but it's something you have to consider on a case-by-case basis.. I only started to cook "seriously" around november so i've still got a lot to learn through experience. It's too bad scaling-down isn't as simple as maintaining molar ratios in chemistry though. That would make cooking easy.
Once you've cooked more, you won't worry about measuring things like roux.

How brown are you supposed to get the flour? I love the taste imparted to something like a gumbo by a very browned, whole-wheat roux.

 

[horton]

Originally Posted by iammatt

No, the other answers are correct. As the liquid simmers over time the roux thickens the liquid and the fat and impuruties in the flour rise to the top to be skimmed off. All that remains of the flour is the pure starch. Nowadays roux is rarely used anymore, but Onion Soup is not a nowadays recipe.


I think you mis-read me, or else I'm confused. You should cook the roux. If you put raw flour into soup to thicken it, the flour will clump, and even if you try and temper raw flour with warm/hot stock it's not the same.

If you're saying a roux may be omitted from the recipe, I would agree. If you're saying you may still need to skim the top I agree too.

 

[itsstillmatt]

^^I think you are right. I did misread you.