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Continue with Cesare Attolini or going for Bespoke?

dauster

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I'm curious what he means by "inside, fit, etc."
I like Simon Crompton and read his blog, but I take some of what he says with a pinch of salt. I can imagine him getting a bespoke jacket made identically to an Attolini jacket inside and being convinced that it has these 'superior' construction features even when it doesn't.

As for fit - that depends on the individual and his body. How do your Attolini garments fit? My RTW Attolini couldn't possibly fit better - they are supremely comfortable and there are no unsightly pulls or areas which are too loose or too tight (unlike with many of Simon's bespoke jackets).

Have you considered MTM Orazio Luciano? I'm especially impressed by what the Parisian Jean Manuel Moreau does with them. Simon actually featured them recently so you will have seen them.
I had a terrible experience with MTM Orazio, I wonder how much it depends on the person taking the measurements vs. the people making the suit. But based on my experience I have trouble trusting them with any order. On the other hand I have heard many great things about Orazio from members here and friends in Europe...
I have seen Jean Manuel Moreau on instagram... looks great. I thought he was a tailor but seems like they "just" have a shop and sell MTM suits ?
 

nb1820

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In my opinion you have some of the best suits (quality and fit).
A few years ago I ordered jackets in:
1. Solito -good cut but very very sloppy work
2. Panico-old school cut, the quality of hand made work is better.
3. Sabino-good balance between cut/quality hand made work/price. They travel to USA regular with trunk show.
4. De Simón-middle size factory, not bespoke. I visited one time and meets him.
4. Ciardi-old cut.
5. The best is Gianni Campagna based in Milano. Best cut/high quality of handmade works-but highly price. The owner died 2 years ago.
6. Attolini -one of the best cut, style, quality (finishing by machine, excl. button holes)
I’m very recommend stay with Attolini.
I visited Naples more than 50 times and I think Attolini not for nothing worth the money.
If you have any questions please write me.
Sorry I have a lot of experience in ordering suits but my English is bad )
How does Rubinacci stack up?
 

ChasingStyle

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From personal experience, I can recommend in Naples Dalcuore, Panico, Paone, (Mimmo) Pirozzi and Vincenzo Cuomo. All outstanding tailors who do end to end work within their shops, and where you will get to meet and be measured by the main cutter behind the name. For trousers my go to guy is Marco Cerrato.

In Palermo I can't recommend Crimi highly enough. And if you catch them at a time when they are not too busy, they will turn around a full suit in 5-6 days, with 2-3 fittings in between.
 

Paolo A

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From personal experience, I can recommend in Naples Dalcuore, Panico, Paone, (Mimmo) Pirozzi and Vincenzo Cuomo. All outstanding tailors who do end to end work within their shops, and where you will get to meet and be measured by the main cutter behind the name. For trousers my go to guy is Marco Cerrato.

In Palermo I can't recommend Crimi highly enough. And if you catch them at a time when they are not too busy, they will turn around a full suit in 5-6 days, with 2-3 fittings in between.
Dear ChasinStyle,
I personal know Vincenzo Cuomo (son) and Ciro Cuomo (his father, who work in Kiton at the present time). They use ready patron and make similar like MTM (spoke Bespoke). I ordered two jackets 4 years ago (one by one). First jacket: with wrong balance and small back, wrong position of sleeves-after two fits!! After I ordered the second one: we spoke about all alterations and he sewing totally copy the first jackets with all mistakes. in result -2 jackets in garbage.
Who is Paone? You mean family of Kiton?
One more time I recommend Attolini-and first of all ready Attolini, ready with small alterations. Please don’t mix up with MTM Attolini, because if you have different shoulders (for example like me 2 cm) result will not been good. But if you will order MTM with simple alterations: length of sleeves, length of jackets, volume in waist you will have good Jacket from Attolini.
 

Paolo A

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Dear friends, I also want to write that all the tailors listed are very nice, good people. And this is a great interesting experience (regarding pizza and mozzarella) an experience trip to Naples to order a jacket or suits. But if we talk about quality and the final result, then it was not successful in my very big case. I'm not saying- no, don’t try. I just described my experience and compare Attolini, whose jackets take first place in my wardrobe. And when the tailors in Naples told me that all the problems in their jacket was normal, and it was better to do it, I showed them Attolini-ready to wear with small alterations. And they lowered their eyes saying, well, this is Attolini.
As you know all family start to work together: Paone, Luciano, Pánico, Attolini, Barbera. Now the biggest is Kiton, Attolini..why?
 

Paolo A

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Dear friends, I also want to write that all the tailors listed are very nice, good people. And this is a great interesting experience (regarding pizza and mozzarella) an experience trip to Naples to order a jacket or suits. But if we talk about quality and the final result, then it was not successful in my very big case. I'm not saying- no, don’t try. I just described my experience and compare Attolini, whose jackets take first place in my wardrobe. And when the tailors in Naples told me that all the problems in their jacket was normal, and it was better to do it, I showed them Attolini-ready to wear with small alterations. And they lowered their eyes saying, well, this is Attolini.
As you know all family start to work together: Paone, Luciano, Pánico, Attolini, Barbera. Now the biggest is Kiton, Attolini..why?
Sorry for my English.
 

Paolo A

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How does Rubinacci stack up?
I know Mariano Rubinacci, I met him a few years ago at the Grand Vesuvio Hotel, where I always stay when I arrive in Naples. I visited Naples Rubinacci shop and workshop by the invitation of Mariano. But i didn’t order a jacket. I don’t like the style of the jackets. it to be suitable for people over 55 years old. But the work of bespoke jackets is good, stitches are very neat. And I very like Rubinacci choice of sleeves lining ))
 

ChasingStyle

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Dear ChasinStyle,
I personal know Vincenzo Cuomo (son) and Ciro Cuomo (his father, who work in Kiton at the present time). They use ready patron and make similar like MTM (spoke Bespoke). I ordered two jackets 4 years ago (one by one). First jacket: with wrong balance and small back, wrong position of sleeves-after two fits!! After I ordered the second one: we spoke about all alterations and he sewing totally copy the first jackets with all mistakes. in result -2 jackets in garbage.

Thanks Paolo for your answer.
I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with Vincenzo - I've always found him to be very patient and accommodating. The work that he has done for me is quite good I would say. I would suggest you discuss the problems you encountered with him, I would be surprised if he would not be willing to address the issues you had. I am surprised about your comment on cutting from a pattern - it hasn't been my experience.

Who is Paone? You mean family of Kiton?

Gennaro Paone (https://sartoriapaone.com/) was recommended to me by a friend - I think the quality of his work is on par with Antonio Panico or Gigi Dalcuore. I don't know if he is or was associated to Kiton.

One more time I recommend Attolini-and first of all ready Attolini, ready with small alterations. Please don’t mix up with MTM Attolini, because if you have different shoulders (for example like me 2 cm) result will not been good. But if you will order MTM with simple alterations: length of sleeves, length of jackets, volume in waist you will have good Jacket from Attolini.

The nice thing about having multiple options is to be able to try and see what works best for everyone. It's great that Attolini MTM works well for you - MTM is not a great option for me, as I'm rather big on the chest, shoulders and belly. And for the prices you pay for the likes of Attolini, I prefer to work with smaller shops that can cater to my specific needs. I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer to this question. Different people, different choices.
 

Despos

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@Paolo A

But if you will order MTM with simple alterations: length of sleeves, length of jackets, volume in waist you will have good Jacket
Buon consiglio

I don’t like the style of the jackets. it to be suitable for people over 55 years old.
Capisco!

And when the tailors in Naples told me that all the problems in their jacket was normal,
Complementi!
 

konstantis

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From personal experience, I can recommend in Naples Dalcuore, Panico, Paone, (Mimmo) Pirozzi and Vincenzo Cuomo. All outstanding tailors who do end to end work within their shops, and where you will get to meet and be measured by the main cutter behind the name. For trousers my go to guy is Marco Cerrato.

In Palermo I can't recommend Crimi highly enough. And if you catch them at a time when they are not too busy, they will turn around a full suit in 5-6 days, with 2-3 fittings in between.
May I ask what are the prices of Sartoria Crimi ? Thanks.
 

DonnyLee

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Understand that bespoke is just about cutting a garment from scratch (sometimes adjusted from a block pattern). This comes with as many potential upsides as it does downsides. The internet is full of examples of bespoke diasters. I think they outnumber the good stories, frankly.

I'm with DieWorkWear on this one. Decade long SF member. Haven't been posting much but feel passionate about this. Disclaimer: Started with Zegna, Canali RTW and matured to Ford and Attolini RTW. Bespoke experience limited to no-name good ones and Ascott, WW Chan in HK.

It's a matter of preference. Mine is that I get more out of RTW since I favour RTWs' positives and don't see that much of an upside from going bespoke.

You can get the perfect fit from bespoke however my opinion is that it comes from multiple purchases not fittings. The word I get from consumers and tailors is the the bespoke tailor will give you the perfect fit after you and him run the gamut of knowing each other, discussing your style, measuring your body, etc. In reality, this comes after making say three $5k suits. So expensive. Perfect doesn't come on the first suit.

Next, a bespoke suit fits you perfectly now. If a suit is measured to fit you to the millimeter, then logically, any millimeter change in your body means that the suit won't fit you perfectly. Even if you're not someone like me who goes gym seasonally, any change in physical habits ( desk bound work vs meeting clients ) or in eating habits ( an pasta run during your birthday month ) likely leads to a change in your waist, shoulder or arms measurement. Perfect fit broken.

I sum this up in a feel that should be adored when going bespoke but I don't. I'm wearing a suit that is too fitted and doesn't give me freedom.

Now let's go for an appropriately selected, high quality, closest to your fit RTW. Mine is Ford. First, you get the house style. A given is that you need to select a RTW style that you like. I like the Windsor's wide lapel, longer jacket, low button stance, power looking peak lapels. The house that makes this level of RTW are at this artisanal level after years in the business. I'll take their decade long refinement of designing a suit over my approach of reading look books and conveying this style to a tailor who hasn't spent more than 6 months in Italy making suits for a living.

Next, a RTW by design is meant to fit a wide range of people. We all want to get good fit and I get this by sampling a lot of RTWs and then pin down that one RTW that fits you well enough. Said RTW with alterations now makes the fit good to great. Here, the situation is that you have a suit that is a quarter of an inch to that perfect fit and I want this quarter of an inch allowance given the seasons of body changes. I see this as longevity. Going for that shoulder presses that adds a few mm to my shoulders won't be a problem anymore.

Lastly, I never bought into the your left arm is longer than your right by half an inch. Unless you're going to that top 1% of tailors who takes your measurements multiple times, I find it hard to believe that 10 tailors with a flexible measurement tape and no consensus schematic on where arm measurement starts and ends will all conclude that your left arm if longer. Case in point: one bespoke tailor measured my arm FROM THE HEM OF THE SHIRT I WAS CURRENTLY WEARING. I guess if I appear in his shop with a size 15.75 shirt as opposed to my usual 16, my arm length will be shorter. There you go for precise measurements.

Sincerely,
Donny
 

dieworkwear

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You can get the perfect fit from bespoke however my opinion is that it comes from multiple purchases not fittings. The word I get from consumers and tailors is the the bespoke tailor will give you the perfect fit after you and him run the gamut of knowing each other, discussing your style, measuring your body, etc. In reality, this comes after making say three $5k suits. So expensive. Perfect doesn't come on the first suit.

Next, a bespoke suit fits you perfectly now. If a suit is measured to fit you to the millimeter, then logically, any millimeter change in your body means that the suit won't fit you perfectly. Even if you're not someone like me who goes gym seasonally, any change in physical habits ( desk bound work vs meeting clients ) or in eating habits ( an pasta run during your birthday month ) likely leads to a change in your waist, shoulder or arms measurement. Perfect fit broken.

FWIW, I find this is more about the tailor than the number of commissions. Of the bespoke tailors I've used, some have been great and others have been not. The ones that have been great delivered a perfect suit on the first order and I didn't see technical improvements on subsequent commissions (although I've adjusted the style here and there to suit my taste). From bad bespoke tailors, I've learned that ordering more after a disastrous first order is a bad idea, as you're just throwing good money after bad. Things don't really improve with subsequent commissions.

Have also found that a roomy drape cut is very amendable to weight changes. I still fit into my Steed garments commissioned ten years ago, whereas my NSM commissions didn't fit after a while because they were cut very slim.

Ultimately, I think it's about finding the right tailor. Although, even then, there are going to be some bad orders for various reasons.
 

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