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Confidence - Popular Beliefs

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by mensimageconsultant, May 1, 2006.

  1. mensimageconsultant

    mensimageconsultant Senior member

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    All over the Internet, you can find men (it's almost always men) writing at length that confidence leads to success.

    In part, it does. But appearance arguably plays a bigger role. (If you look bad enough, you won't be given the chance to verbally express your sureness of self.) The confidence "experts" barely refer to it.

    Most men keep to themselves the knowledge that their confidence is affected by where they think they rank in facial and bodily attractiveness.

    Men seem to suspect that how they dress also affects confidence and, to a point, can compensate for unhappiness with other aspects of appearance.

    If men knew how much clothes and grooming affect confidence and performance, if they were familiar with the research, would that make them care more about how they dress on dates? In daily life? This company's mission is to achieve that (well-dressed men as the rule rather than the exception) on a large scale, and people here seem to want that also, so what do you think?
     
  2. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    I think you're right on the money. It's amazing how differently people treat me now that I wear suits instead of what I used to wear (jeans & black tshirts).
     
  3. oman

    oman Senior member

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    i disagree

    i used to dress like a dumbass in my middle years of high school, but my personality was the always brashest. i was the most aggressive, confrontational (not in a violent way) dude there. this was very apparent in group situations, like classroom discussions and whatnot

    initially, people were loath to talk to me because i looked like an idiot. however, after a couple of months of class, most of my classmates (both girls and guys) learnt to enjoy my unique style of company, and i made friends

    i will concede that:
    1) this did not happen by my design
    2) it was a gradual acceptance, not an immediate one

    but yeah, confidence can definitely take on appearance
     
  4. maleofglory

    maleofglory Member

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    Minneapolis.
    I also disagree. Being well dressed is not going to bring about success in your job (or even land a job) as much as being a confident individual willing to take risks and make decisions. Assuming such individual is 'normally' dressed to some moderate standard, they will have MUCH more success over their life then a well dressed insecure individual.
     
  5. Reggs

    Reggs Senior member

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    I agree
    I have an accounting text book written by Gregory Mankiw, and he has said that men considered attractive have a 12% higher income than those considered unattractive. Having a nice appearance can do wonders for people, and cripple those who dont. I would also include things like posture, walk, voice, vocab, gestures into appearance.
    For example: about a month ago, someone who sits next to me in a class would casualy talk with me. Since I was a teenager, I have always had a very deep voice. Over time I began to notice that he would speak in a lower tone with me than he did with anyone elce. I never gave much thought to my voice before, but knowing that he would mimic it gave me confidence in it.

    Oman, I think the poster was speaking spacificly about men. Teenagers are generaly egotistical dumbasses anyway.

    http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._Gregory_Mankiw
     
  6. Bradford

    Bradford Senior member

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    I agree with you - in the sense that for many people being well-dressed helps them to achieve confidence.

    The problem is - most people probably already think they are well-dressed [​IMG]
     
  7. dah328

    dah328 Senior member

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    Oman, I think the poster was speaking spacificly about men. Teenagers are generaly egotistical dumbasses anyway.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Margaret

    Margaret Senior member

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    These kinds of questions are close to meaningless in the abstract because everything is important to some degree, and it's impossible to weigh the relative importance of one thing against another without knowing the context in which the person operates and the absolute level of the other skills.

    It's really not that important anyway -- the bottom line is everyone needs an image consultant, right? Got it.
     
  9. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    These kinds of questions are close to meaningless in the abstract because everything is important to some degree, and it's impossible to weigh the relative importance of one thing against another without knowing the context in which the person operates and the absolute level of the other skills.

    It's really not that important anyway -- the bottom line is everyone needs an image consultant, right? Got it.


    Exactly!

    You know what else everyone also needs? The ability to see through peoples BS and see that they are really just advertising their services / products. [​IMG]

    Jon.
     
  10. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    Exactly!

    You know what else everyone also needs? The ability to see through peoples BS and see that they are really just advertising their services / products. [​IMG]

    Jon.


    All it takes is superpowers.

    I can provide them for you at a competitive rate. [​IMG]
     
  11. tiger02

    tiger02 Senior member

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    All it takes is superpowers.

    I can provide them for you at a competitive rate. [​IMG]

    LOL [​IMG]
     
  12. Get Smart

    Get Smart Senior member

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    The problem is - most people probably already think they are well-dressed [​IMG]


    amen on that.
     
  13. dah328

    dah328 Senior member

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    The problem is - most people probably already think they are well-dressed [​IMG]
    This is true and the members of this board are only slightly less prone to this mistaken reasoning. MIC has some valid points to make. Just because the preponderance of posts here are about the details of canvassed lapels and 2x2 cloth doesn't mean that those things have any significance to anyone else.
     
  14. Martinis at 8

    Martinis at 8 Senior member

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    Location:
    Angola
    All over the Internet, you can find men (it's almost always men) writing at length that confidence leads to success.

    In part, it does. But appearance arguably plays a bigger role. (If you look bad enough, you won't be given the chance to verbally express your sureness of self.) The confidence "experts" barely refer to it.

    Most men keep to themselves the knowledge that their confidence is affected by where they think they rank in facial and bodily attractiveness.

    Men seem to suspect that how they dress also affects confidence and, to a point, can compensate for unhappiness with other aspects of appearance.

    If men knew how much clothes and grooming affect confidence and performance, if they were familiar with the research, would that make them care more about how they dress on dates? In daily life? This company's mission is to achieve that (well-dressed men as the rule rather than the exception) on a large scale, and people here seem to want that also, so what do you think?


    Actually image consultants are anathema as far as I am concerned. You guys are giving away our secrets to the masses. I want to keep them dumb!

    This keeps the competition down, and hence makes it easier for me to make money in business, and easier for me to get laid by high quality women.

    May your company fail! [​IMG]

    M8

    P.S. Nice website [​IMG]
     
  15. mensimageconsultant

    mensimageconsultant Senior member

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    I agree with you - in the sense that for many people being well-dressed helps them to achieve confidence.

    The problem is - most people probably already think they are well-dressed [​IMG]


    Sadly, in the United States, it's close to the truth. Most men think they dress okay, and compared to their peers, they do.

    But most know whether or not they have the "genetic gifts" or fitness their peers do. Then it becomes a matter of showing that clothing can compensate "to a point" without excessively hurting feelings or causing resignation by connecting overall appearance to success. At the same time, there's a need to fight the dubious idea that success only requires "confidence.". And the popular, often defeatist idea that appearance shouldn't matter, because that will never be true.

    And, no, this is not stealth marketing aimed at regular members. Nor is it a request for help in becoming rich (image consultants don't become rich by privately helping average people). It's education and crafting the message to the people who most need the help, in a way levelling the playing the field, even if many others could benefit from services.
     
  16. mensimageconsultant

    mensimageconsultant Senior member

    Messages:
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    I also disagree. Being well dressed is not going to bring about success in your job (or even land a job) as much as being a confident individual willing to take risks and make decisions. Assuming such individual is 'normally' dressed to some moderate standard, they will have MUCH more success over their life then a well dressed insecure individual.

    How many people would agree?

    "Much more" is a stretch, and it's USA-centric, but it is true to an extent. Yet the "brashness quotient" won't do much good in, for example, a low-level research job, while the beauty premium is believed to significantly sway in such a setting.

    Also, with some women, brashness won't be a plus.

    There doesn't appear to be any hard evidence linking it to lower fear of public speaking, the biggest fear according to many surveys and something which being dressed well does help.

    As for the many men who are insecure... Telling them to be "confident" or accept a lower quality of life doesn't help.
     
  17. mensimageconsultant

    mensimageconsultant Senior member

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    As a follow-up to the claim that most men think they dress well, here is some old information about how high school boys rate themselves. It's safe to assume that not much has changed over the years and not much changes in becoming an adult.

    Extremely well dressed 5.5%
    Better than average 9.0%
    About as well as average 84.6%
    Poorer than average 1.0%
    Very poorly dressed 0.0%
     
  18. Fritz

    Fritz Senior member

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    Germany
    That is not at all a safe assumption.
     
  19. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Canuckistan
    That is not at all a safe assumption.

    The numbers might not exactly match but I'd tend to agree that it probably is a fairly safe assumption. Men compare themselves to the average, not to the pick of the litter. Think about the underlying psychology.

    I can't count the number of times i've seen men in their 20s complementing each other for a very average level of dress. Then they put on a suit (usually poorly fitting, cheaply made and/or black) or a stripey shirt and all of a sudden they think they're the best-dressed in town.

    Part of me wants to recommend them to this site out of pity and remembering what it was like to think that Kenneth Coles were great shoes, but then I remember that by leaving the average to their ignorance, my skinny ass can be above average and more easily compete for the pick of the litter females :p

    Believe me, the clothes help, but so does the confidence that goes along with knowing you look good.

    I propose a new slogan for the forum:
    StyleForum: helping men get better pussy since 2002!
     
  20. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    Seattle, WA
    A little crude, but maybe we can use it for our Hustler feature.
     

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