Comparison of 6 BADLY Fitted Jackets

[Leaveitothexperts]

Originally Posted by Ivan Kipling

Here's another example of tailoring mastery. This jacket is from Saint Laurent, rive gauche. My sister owns it. Imagine being able to achieve this purity of line, in ready-to-wear! Amazing. note the unusually steep placement of the left, 'breast' pocket.

The cut is pure bliss. The jacket seems thicker than would most mens'. Wonder how this would look if styled for a man?

 

[Ivan Kipling]

I hope we're not getting too far, offthread . . . but, that jacket is in cashmere, would you believe it? NOBODY, could do jackets like Saint Laurent. And this is READY TO WEAR!? Our sales associate was in the boutique at Chevy Chase Maryland, when Chanel officials came in the store. She heard one of them, say flat out: 'the best suits and jackets in the world, are made by Saint Laurent.'

What's miraculous, among everything else, is that no matter what fabric, YSL used . . . his fit remained airy, but CRISP. Never baggy or slouchy. His shoulders and sleeves, were perfection. I was blessed to have a sister who was model sized . . . she wore nothing but Saint Laurent for more than twenty years. After that, any clothes for women, looked . . . wrong. Just my honest opinion, of course. For some reason, though, I never liked YSL'S men's collections. They were not up to the standards of his women's clothes. Never.

 

[Garbz]

Originally Posted by Garbz

They all need to have the sleeves turned up (rotated up, is what I mean): notice how they all have diagonal creases behind the arm? Consequence of a rather upright stance: your arm is hanging more to the back than with most people.
Number 5 is nice. Indeed your shoulder is low, ought to be fixed to, that ought to take care of the unsightly lines under your right arm.

Hey guys, I just found a new way to make a fool of myself. What I meant of course, was that the sleeves should have their pitch turned DOWN, not up. Sorry, my bad.

 

[Garbz]

Originally Posted by Garbz

They all need to have the sleeves turned up (rotated up, is what I mean): notice how they all have diagonal creases behind the arm? Consequence of a rather upright stance: your arm is hanging more to the back than with most people.
Number 5 is nice. Indeed your shoulder is low, ought to be fixed to, that ought to take care of the unsightly lines under your right arm.

Fellows, I just found a new way to make a fool of myself

What I meant of course, was that the sleeves need to have their pitch turned DOWN, not up. Sorry about that. My bad.

 

[cuffthis]

I have to say "God Bless You" for posting pics of your jackets here for all us wolves around here to tear into you.

It takes a lot of courage to do that and I commend you for it. I wish others around here would also do the same.

Who's next? I will follow the next person who does it. Then you can either let me have it with complaints or compliments.

 

[stephen]

Originally Posted by cuffthis

I have to say "God Bless You" for posting pics of your jackets here for all us wolves around here to tear into you. It takes a lot of courage to do that and I commend you for it. I wish others around here would also do the same. Who's next? I will follow the next person who does it. Then you can either let me have it with complaints or compliments.
I was counting on that pack of wolves to be exceptionally vicious.

I rarely feel like I have things that fit me well, and I've always been of the opinion that proper fit makes up 80% of what's considered "good fashion". A little black dress perfectly draped on Nicole Kidman is far more attractive to look at than the most sophisticated couture costume whose fit is off. Thanks to all for their opinions and insights!

 

[LA Guy]

This just reminds me what a genius Cristobal Balenciaga was. I can think of no one of his caliber these days. The coat is beautiful, the fit is perfect, and it has bulk (and is probably quite warm) without any sacrifice of elegance. And this is remarkable when you think that the models of yesteryear were probably size 6 and regular height, and not todays 6'+ size 0s.

And the design is remarkable. There are no gimmicks of any kind. Just a beautifully cut garment.

Originally Posted by Ivan Kipling

Sleeves have always been the nemesis of fine couture. Chanel used often to keep her models on their feet for hours on end, pins jabbing into their underarms in order to get her sleeves and armholes, the way she wanted them. Often times, she was never satisfied.

This photo, demonstrates the perfection of a Balenciaga sleeve. Twenty-six couture fittings, were sometimes required, before Balenciaga gave his seal of approval, on a garment. Perfection of line was his obsession; sleeves often ruined the desired effect. In order to achieve the desired lightness to his flou fits, Balenciaga required models to move, while being fitted. He was not able to decide on the fit of a garment, by having a model stand still, before him. Saint Laurent, did the same thing.

When Balenciaga did the uniforms for Air France stewardesses, he asked for a couture fitting for each and every woman: three thousand of them. I don't think his request was granted.

 

[a tailor]

because beer guts are prevalent thats why.
the backs all look long at the top. that is unless you are standing at attention with the arms held back as so many do when being fitted.
you are faceing right this may also be haveing some effect.

 

[Ivan Kipling]

LA Guy, I'm so glad you enjoyed that photo . . . I have many, many pictures of Balenciaga designs. Yes, he was a towering genius of fashion. His fit, was unparalleled. He refined the airy, flou fit, first invented via modern fashion, by Vionnet. She took flou, off ancient Greek statues. As a man of Greek ancestry I am flattered, to say the very least. Saint Laurent learned the secret of the true flou from Madame Felisa, after she left Balenciaga, once his doors, closed. I am very, very familiar with flou fits . . . for this reason. I have never, ever seen anything so beautiful. Every time my sister wore Saint Laurent, it was an event. Every garment appeared ready to drop off her body, or to float away, in a whisper. Flou is absolutely GORGEOUS. It makes tight fitting garments look cheap, tawdry, and vulgar. There is NOTHING like a woman on a runway, appearing as though her clothes are about to fall off of her. I have many couture and ready to wear shows, from Saint Laurent, on tape. They are INCREDIBLE, to see. Grand entertainment. When Saint Laurent retired, all of these marvelous techniques, died with him. Trust me. You will never, ever see clothes like these, again. Here's another example: YSL haute couture.

 

[LA Guy]

Well, the problem is that there couturiers are a dying breed, and no one really understands the techniques anymore. I think that the modern designer that most closely adapted this technique was Hedi Slimane, in his earlier days at Dior Homme. It think that it's a shame that he is not really living up to his potential. Anyway, I think that menswear will never reach the same levels because traditional tailors don't have nearly the understanding of movement the way the old couture houses did, and focus exclusively on silhouette, which is essentially static. Some designers have some concept of this, but lack the technique to execute it properly. And the animosity between the older tailoring houses (say those on Saville Row) and designers (say, Giorgio Armani) will make this impossible. I think that the Italians come closest, because the animosity between the new and the old is least pronounced.

 

[Ivan Kipling]

I've said many times, that I stick with Giorgio Armani, in part because he is the ONLY couturier out of Milan, who understand even an approximation of the flou technique. It is NOT, easy to do. Only three coutuiers have mastered, flou: Vionnet, Balenciaga, and Saint Laurent. Nobody else. Givenchy came close, but his fits and designs couldn't compare to YSL'S. Far, far less complex or sophisticated. No contest between the two.

I remember Slimane mostly for his skinny suits, which became KL'S obsession. Tom Ford did everything in his power, to destroy the fit at Saint Laurent. He showed spray on tight, clothes . . . hideous, impossible to sell, and cheap. My sources told me that at 80 percent off, they couldn't move Ford's merchandise. During the twenty odd years that I collected Saint Laurent, I had often to call locations all over the United States, to get the piece I wanted, in my sister's size. Half price, was the best I ever, could do.

But, times change. Saint Laurent was tired. He was disillusioned. It was time for him to go.

 

[LabelKing]

In addition to Balenciaga's cut, the American Charles James was another absolutely superb couturier:

He used to spend two months on each sleeve. He died in the Chelsea Hotel destitute, divorced, and obsessively reworking details on his past gowns, "borrowed" from his clients. James also found most female models to have hideous, protruding hips so he would source out young men to model the garments for him while he worked on them.