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clothes in the movie 'great gatsby'

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by esquire., Apr 16, 2005.

  1. esquire.

    esquire. Distinguished Member

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    Haven't read that book in years, but...

    Jay Gatsby and RL both tried to recreate their past. Gatsby told everybody lies that he studied at Oxford, etc.. Ralphie, born Ralph Lifschitz, literally changed his last name as to appear less Jewish.

    There's a certain amount of anglophilla, and thus a underlying sense of cultural inferiority. Gatsby is ashamed of his past, and he tries to project this mysterious, romantic past to replace it. At one point, Gatsby lies to so many people, you start to wonder if even Gatsby believes his lies by now. RL does the same with his advertisements where he tries to project this image of luxury and old money heritage and class. If you didn't know any better, you'd think he was a WASP living a simple but honest life half of the time and living the beautiful life in the other half. In reality, RL was a lower middle class Jew who grew up in Bronx. RL sells this lifestyle of nonchalance and quiet confidence, yet there are stories of a tyranical, insecure RL.

    Both ashamed of how they made their fortunes. Gatsby's riches is somehow connected to gamblers and illegal activities. The bulk of RL's profits comes from his outlets, even though he doesn't want people to know that. RL didn't study art or fashion in college; he was a business major.
     


  2. tgfny

    tgfny Senior Member

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    I admire the fact the a Jewish kid from NYC made more money off of English clothing than any Brit ever did.

    RL was a college drop out. You gotta admire the empire he built. Now every hot WASP chick that comes to NYC wants to work for him.
     


  3. lisapop

    lisapop Senior Member

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    You're being a bit harsh on Ralph and his connection, or lack of one, to his Jewish roots, which is much-discussed in Michael Gross's biography of RL, "Genuine Authentic, The Real Life Of Ralph Lauren". Fact is, many descendents of Eastern European Jewish immigrants are disconnected from their Jewish roots because their ancestors wanted to start a new life in America and elsewhere that had no linkage to the harsh memories of their homelands. While it might not be publicized, RL does give generously to Jewish causes and charities, and he certainly is not the first, nor the last, person to change his surname for business or personal reasons. And, while some in the apparel industry might not view RL as an original designer (And while RL, himself, might have insecurities about the respect he enjoys in the industry), he is nevertheless loved and respected by many of the most influential members of the community for his designs, though derivative they may be. And, who can take issue with a kid rising from the slums of the Bronx to running a $10 billion company all based on selling an image of the American dream?
    Grayson (Surname changed only for Internet purposes)
     


  4. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    (esquire. @ April 20 2005,04:45) Haven't read that book in years, but... Jay Gatsby and RL both tried to recreate their past. Gatsby told everybody lies that he studied at Oxford, etc.. Ralphie, born Ralph Lifschitz, literally changed his last name as to appear less Jewish. There's a certain amount of anglophilla, and thus a underlying sense of cultural inferiority. Gatsby is ashamed of his past, and he tries to project this mysterious, romantic past to replace it. At one point, Gatsby lies to so many people, you start to wonder if even Gatsby believes his lies by now. RL does the same with his advertisements where he tries to project this image of luxury and old money heritage and class. If you didn't know any better, you'd think he was a WASP living a simple but honest life half of the time and living the beautiful life in the other half. In reality, RL was a lower middle class Jew who grew up in Bronx. RL sells this lifestyle of nonchalance and quiet confidence, yet there are stories of a tyranical, insecure RL. Both ashamed of how they made their fortunes. Gatsby's riches is somehow connected to gamblers and illegal activities. The bulk of RL's profits comes from his outlets, even though he doesn't want people to know that. RL didn't study art or fashion in college; he was a business major.
    I admire the fact the a Jewish kid from NYC made more money off of English clothing than any Brit ever did. RL was a college drop out. You gotta admire the empire he built. Now every hot WASP chick that comes to NYC wants to work for him.
    And isn't that the real dream? To have every hot goyim schiksa pursuing a position in your organization? Jon.
     


  5. lisapop

    lisapop Senior Member

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    Quite true, especially at the flagship Rhinelander mansion store, which is considered one of the choice "Glam Jobs" in NY. Doesn't pay very handsomely, but the healthy store discounts make it easier for Binky and Buffy to work there.
    Grayson
     


  6. stache

    stache Senior Member

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    Case in point, the lengths he went to in order to convince the public that he designed the wardrobe for Gatsby. It seems to have worked for the most part.
     


  7. lisapop

    lisapop Senior Member

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    That's redundant.
    Grayson
     


  8. tgfny

    tgfny Senior Member

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    Gotta say it's one of my dreams. Although the position I want them pursuing isn't in my organization. (insert gymnast reference here)
     


  9. lisapop

    lisapop Senior Member

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    Quick anecdote: I was returning from a trip to London several years back, going through customs, when I heard a scuffle a few passengers away from me, where some guy was berating his wife and grabbing luggage out of her hand. I turned to see what was going on, and it was none other than RL, totally red-faced and disheveled, making the scene. I was shocked to see him treat her this way in public, but I learned a few weeks later that he had previously undergone neurosurgery for brain cancer, which would make me cranky, too.
    Grayson
     


  10. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    Now every hot WASP chick that comes to NYC wants to work for him.
    Quite true, especially at the flagship Rhinelander mansion store, which is considered one of the choice "Glam Jobs" in NY. Doesn't pay very handsomely, but the healthy store discounts make it easier for Binky and Buffy to work there. Grayson
    Which leads me to snobby sales people who work in such "˜flagships' (I say flagship in generic terms, regarding 867 Madison, I have been always treated well) who think they are somehow on you're A) financial level B) sartorial knowledge level. First of all, if you make $20-25K a year working at Polo, it does not matter if you are working at the flagship or not, you are still being paid $20-25K a year. People who come in and spend in one hour on clothes what you spend on 2 months rent should not be looked down upon for any reason...least of all because you are working at the "˜flagship'. It's your job to serve them you should be thankful they come into the store and not the other way around, I mean why else would they pay you commission? Secondly, most people working in "˜high-end' clothing stores would not know the difference between chest material from suiting material: "Are your jackets canvassed?" "No, they are made of wool" Or something of the like, can be often heard at a "˜high-end' clothing store near you. Thus, I would appreciate being less snotty if you do not know anything about clothing other than it comes in different colors and sizes. Jon.
     


  11. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    Quote goyim schiksa That's redundant. Grayson
    Yes, and what's more: Goy is the singular form. A Goy is a nation [other than the nation of Israel] in the Pentateuch. The word for nations other than Israel became the word in Yiddish for persons other than Jews. Goyim is the plural form. A shiksa is a non-Jewish woman. A sheygets is a non-Jewish man. Spellings vary slightly because it's all transliterated from Yiddish, which is written in Hebrew script.
    Oy, must we get into semantics? If you understood what I said, then my point got across. Jon.
     


  12. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    (imageWIS @ April 20 2005,07:28) And isn't that the real dream? To have every hot goyim schiksa pursuing a position in your organization? Jon.
    Gotta say it's one of my dreams. Although the position I want them pursuing isn't in my organization. (insert gymnast reference here)
    I guess it all depends on your definition of "˜position' and "˜in organization' is. Jon.
     


  13. tgfny

    tgfny Senior Member

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    (lisapop @ April 20 2005,10:31) Quote Now every hot WASP chick that comes to NYC wants to work for him.
    Quite true, especially at the flagship Rhinelander mansion store, which is considered one of the choice "Glam Jobs" in NY. Â Doesn't pay very handsomely, but the healthy store discounts make it easier for Binky and Buffy to work there. Grayson
    Which leads me to snobby sales people who work in such "˜flagships' (I say flagship in generic terms, regarding 867 Madison, I have been always treated well) who think they are somehow on you're A) financial level B) sartorial knowledge level. First of all, if you make $20-25K a year working at Polo, it does not matter if you are working at the flagship or not, you are still being paid $20-25K a year. People who come in and spend in one hour on clothes what you spend on 2 months rent should not be looked down upon for any reason...least of all because you are working at the "˜flagship'. It's your job to serve them you should be thankful they come into the store and not the other way around, I mean why else would they pay you commission? Secondly, most people working in "˜high-end' clothing stores would not know the difference between chest material from suiting material: "Are your jackets canvassed?" "No, they are made of wool" Or something of the like, can be often heard at a "˜high-end' clothing store near you. Thus, I would appreciate being less snotty if you do not know anything about clothing other than it comes in different colors and sizes. Jon.[/quote] The top sales guys there can make 6 figures Think they get 8% commission. Not Binky or Buffy, but the top guys are pretty good.
     


  14. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    (imageWIS @ April 20 2005,07:56)
    Quote Now every hot WASP chick that comes to NYC wants to work for him.
    Quite true, especially at the flagship Rhinelander mansion store, which is considered one of the choice "Glam Jobs" in NY. Doesn't pay very handsomely, but the healthy store discounts make it easier for Binky and Buffy to work there. Grayson
    Which leads me to snobby sales people who work in such "˜flagships' (I say flagship in generic terms, regarding 867 Madison, I have been always treated well) who think they are somehow on you're A) financial level B) sartorial knowledge level. First of all, if you make $20-25K a year working at Polo, it does not matter if you are working at the flagship or not, you are still being paid $20-25K a year. People who come in and spend in one hour on clothes what you spend on 2 months rent should not be looked down upon for any reason...least of all because you are working at the "˜flagship'. It's your job to serve them you should be thankful they come into the store and not the other way around, I mean why else would they pay you commission? Secondly, most people working in "˜high-end' clothing stores would not know the difference between chest material from suiting material: "Are your jackets canvassed?" "No, they are made of wool" Or something of the like, can be often heard at a "˜high-end' clothing store near you. Thus, I would appreciate being less snotty if you do not know anything about clothing other than it comes in different colors and sizes. Jon.
    The top sales guys there can make 6 figures Think they get 8% commission. Not Binky or Buffy, but the top guys are pretty good.[/quote] Well, you would have to sell at least $1,250,000 worth of merchandise to make $100,000 from commission, if you get 8% commission; not an easy feat. Jon.
     


  15. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    Oy, must we get into semantics? If you understood what I said, then my point got across.
    "Dress British, think Yiddish"
    Cute. Jon.
     


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