Clothes and Nationality

[Fabienne]

Quote:

(Fabienne @ May 20 2005,20:02)

Originally Posted by ernest,May 20 2005,12:31

Originally Posted by globetrotter,May 20 2005,18:27

(a french and a german and a japonese CEO really don't dress exactly alike and niether do an american, british and greek worker).
Does the CEO of Mircosoft dress exactly alike the one of MORGAN STANLEY or FORD ? Do you dress like your collegues? Like your friends?
Ernest, I often work in environments where large groups of foreigners gather. Â I can assure you it is fairly easy to guess nationalities based on the way they dress solely. Â And I am no expert in men's clothing by any stretch of the imagination. Â I'll be at one of those gatherings next week, and I'll bet you I'll pick the right language to address individuals in with a 90% accuracy rate.
It is also easy to tell by looking their face/body. A small european guy with dark hairs isn't likely to come from Finland. A tall  blond comes rarely from Japan. I mean, may be you don't tell who is who because of the clothes.
In my job, many more people know me than I know them. It is crucial that I try and remember who they are, where they are from, using every hint or detail I have available. Clothing plays a big part. After all, a Swede may look like a German, a Northern Italian may have blue eyes and blond hair, a Tahitian may have Chinese parents, but that Tahitian will not dress like a Taiwanese.

 

[ernest]

In my job, many more people know me than I know them.  It is crucial that I try and remember who they are, where they are from, using every hint or detail I have available.  Clothing plays a big part.  After all, a Swede may look like a German, a Northern Italian may have blue eyes and blond hair, a Tahitian may have Chinese parents, but that Tahitian will not dress like a Taiwanese.

You can not know someone who's never talked to you and has never introduced himself.

Using clothes to reconize people sound dangerous because they are not dressed in the same way all the time.


Explain me how you use clothes contretly.

 

[LA Guy]

Quote:

(Fabienne @ May 21 2005,14:36) In my job, many more people know me than I know them. Â It is crucial that I try and remember who they are, where they are from, using every hint or detail I have available. Â Clothing plays a big part. Â After all, a Swede may look like a German, a Northern Italian may have blue eyes and blond hair, a Tahitian may have Chinese parents, but that Tahitian will not dress like a Taiwanese.
You can not know someone who's never talked to you and has never introduced himself. Using clothes to reconize people sound dangerous because they are not dressed in the same way all the time. Explain me how you use clothes contretly.
This is why you should travel. Minor differences in dress give away a *lot*. For example, some friends and I like to play "Spot the nationalities" and we are correct in out assessment a statistically high amount of the time. For example, preferences in the cut of jeans (Europeans in general and French in particular like tighter jeans) lead to slightly different choices in footwear - slimmer sneakers, for example, than the average American. Young Europeans also favor leather and leather soled, slimmer footwear with jeans a *lot* more than their American counterparts. These are just the first examples I could think of, but there are numerous others. More importantly than clothing, however, is demeanor and carriage. I could wear the same clothes as my cousins in Hong Kong, and be surrounded by them, but pretty much anyone in HK could tell, without my having to move/speak/etc... that I am not a native. I start walking, and there is no question.

 

[Get Smart]

I could wear the same clothes as my cousins in Hong Kong, and be surrounded by them, but pretty much anyone in HK could tell, without my having to move/speak/etc... that I am not a native. Â I start walking, and there is no question.

good point, i have experience the same kind of thing in S. Korea, being in the company of all Koreans, not saying a word, and one of the first things asked about me was "oh, he is Japanese, right?".....and similarly, on the same trip being at one of the below-street level shops and the storekeeper started to talk to me in Japanese. *of course this might have had nothing to do with dress/mannerism and more to do with being able to spot a different type of asian. because, no, we DON'T all look the same. Â Take this test to tell asians apart yours truly scored 14 of 18.

 

[Michael66]

Quote:

(Michael66 @ May 20 2005,22:12) I think both factors are involved .... nationality and "social group".... so there is no reason to argue....no problem has JUST one solution Â

Of course many factors are involved, age is one of these but take Minister  in Japan, Italy, US, or Russia, they are more or less dressed in the same way. Do the same with a civil servant working in a post office, you will have the same result. Of course, some stuffs will be more popular in Japan than in US but it will a detail that most of people will not notice.
As I live in former socialist country and this part of the world is well known to me I can say, that in here people don´t pay so much attention how they look .... especialy older people and people who don´t have too high incomes. I never forget my shock, when I saw driver of the bus in Washington, D.C. .... even general of our army or high clerk of any our ministry would be match for him ....yes, he had just uniform of driver, but absolutly clean a perfect shape(freshly ironed) and fit....and his courtesy was also great. Between better educated people who very often work for international companies and earn good money is situation much better...but there is another problem...they don´t know how to get dressed....though it´s not easy to keep rules here....for example, I have seen just one pair of balmorals in all Prague...we can go to Germany or Austria, but .... prices of goods of satisfactory quality are very often to high for us.

 

[Michael66]

This is why you should travel. Â Minor differences in dress give away a *lot*. Â For example, some friends and I like to play "Spot the nationalities" and we are correct in out assessment a statistically high amount of the time. Â For example, preferences in the cut of jeans (Europeans in general and French in particular like tighter jeans) lead to slightly different choices in footwear - slimmer sneakers, for example, than the average American. Â Young Europeans also favor leather and leather soled, slimmer footwear with jeans a *lot* more than their American counterparts. Â These are just the first examples I could think of, but there are numerous others. More importantly than clothing, however, is demeanor and carriage. Â I could wear the same clothes as my cousins in Hong Kong, and be surrounded by them, but pretty much anyone in HK could tell, without my having to move/speak/etc... that I am not a native. Â I start walking, and there is no question.

Don´t talk about Europe ..... there is nothing like common style ... and if you think so, you ust haven´t seen enoug

There´s simply too much diferences..... Compare this .... UK, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Poland, Czech rep., Hungary, Romania+Bulgaria, Slovinia, Croatia, Grece, Albania.....

..something common???

 

[LA Guy]

Quote:

(LA Guy @ May 21 2005,09:39) This is why you should travel. Â Minor differences in dress give away a *lot*. Â For example, some friends and I like to play "Spot the nationalities" and we are correct in out assessment a statistically high amount of the time. Â For example, preferences in the cut of jeans (Europeans in general and French in particular like tighter jeans) lead to slightly different choices in footwear - slimmer sneakers, for example, than the average American. Â Young Europeans also favor leather and leather soled, slimmer footwear with jeans a *lot* more than their American counterparts. Â These are just the first examples I could think of, but there are numerous others. More importantly than clothing, however, is demeanor and carriage. Â I could wear the same clothes as my cousins in Hong Kong, and be surrounded by them, but pretty much anyone in HK could tell, without my having to move/speak/etc... that I am not a native. Â I start walking, and there is no question.
Don´t talk about Europe ..... there is nothing like common style ... and if you think so, you ust haven´t seen enoug

 There´s simply too much diferences..... Compare this .... UK, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Poland, Czech rep., Hungary, Romania+Bulgaria, Slovinia, Croatia, Grece, Albania.....

..something common???
I realize that I was speaking in generalizations. Neither is the US homogeneous. There is the East Coast vs. the West Coast, the South vs. the North, the Mdwest, and so on. My point was not to say that Europeans are a monolithic group (I would never insult the Italians by putting them in the same group as the East (you can still tell a difference) Germans, but merely to point out that *how* people wear the same article of clothing in a variety of ways, and how you can get an idea of someone's nationality just by the way they dress - not necessarily even by *what* they wear.

 

[philosophe]

LA Guy makes an excellent point about comportment and kinesthetic style. It's not just the clothes and shoes, but the posture, the affect, the sense of personal space--the whole physical style of being in the world.

 

[Michael66]

My point was not to say that Europeans are a monolithic group (I would never insult the Italians by putting them in the same group as the East (you can still tell a difference) Germans, but merely to point out that *how* people wear the same article of clothing in a variety of ways, and how you can get an idea of someone's nationality just by the way they dress - not necessarily even by *what* they wear.

Germans...ok..they are diferent....like every nation is..but to talk about East Germas...it´s not very fair....live 40y under comunist goverment, a very hard one..., and we will see ... it´s not easy to "start again" ... unfortunately I know what I´m talking about.

 

[Fabienne]

You can not know someone who's never talked to you and has never introduced himself.[/quote] Let that be your riddle of the day, Ernest. Using clothes to reconize people sound dangerous because they are not dressed in the same way all the time.

Don't worry about me, in three years at this job, I've never offended anyone that I know of. I remain charming at all times.

Explain me how you use clothes contretly.

OK, here's a concrete example. Last night, we were invited to a party where I knew only two people. Many Americans and Italians were invited, one French national (me) and a couple from Ireland. All the American men, except my husband, wore some variation on the theme of "Dockers and blousy shirt", usually muted colors. The one Italian man, in honor of whom the party was, wore a jacket, shirt untucked, and jeans. The American women wore conservative pants, twin sets, baggy dresses, flat shoes. The Italian women wore lots of spandex, interesting blouses with layers of fabric criss-crossing, cache-cœur/calico knitted with thick wool, "abstract" jewelry, pointy toe shoes with medium heel. The Irish man wore a bright pattern shirt (blue stripes) that had some style and was more fitted, while his wife was in a sleeveless black linen dress. Last but not least: my husband wore a navy su misura single-breasted suit by Ermenegildo Zegna. The fabric was Soltex wool, a very light fabric with a slight sheen. Pants were flat front. The shirt was also by Zegna, white cotton broadcloth. The shoes and belt were matched brown peeble-grain captoes by Salvatore Ferragamo. Oh, almost forgot me: diaphanous silk Diane von Furstenberg paisley (pastel colors, mostly pink and green) cache-cœur, asymetrical beige skirt split over right knee, brown open toe high heel shoes. My score: I was only unsure about the Irish couple. I didn't think they were Americans, I thought maybe Australian, but in the end could not figure out their nationality, until I heard them talk, of course. It surely isn't an exact science, but you can read a lot into a person's clothing. And not just nationality.

 

[bachbeet]

Fabienne: You said your accent is less noticeable when you speak English. Actually, the French accent is very attractive to hear when a woman speaks English.

 

[globetrotter]

Quote:

(ernest @ May 21 2005,09:21)
You can not know someone who's never talked to you and has never introduced himself.
Let that be your riddle of the day, Ernest. Using clothes to reconize people sound dangerous because they are not dressed in the same way all the time.

Don't worry about me, in three years at this job, I've never offended anyone that I know of. Â I remain charming at all times. Â

Explain me how you use clothes contretly.

OK, here's a concrete example.  Last night, we were invited to a party where I knew only two people.  Many Americans and Italians were invited, one French national (me) and a couple from Ireland.  All the American men, except my husband, wore some variation on the theme of "Dockers and blousy shirt", usually muted colors. The one Italian man, in honor of whom the party was, wore a jacket, shirt untucked, and jeans.  The American women wore conservative pants, twin sets, baggy dresses, flat shoes.  The Italian women wore lots of spandex, interesting blouses with layers of fabric criss-crossing, cache-cœur/calico knitted with thick wool, "abstract" jewelry, pointy toe shoes with medium heel.  The Irish man wore a bright pattern shirt (blue stripes) that had some style and was more fitted, while his wife was in a sleeveless black linen dress. Last but not least: my husband wore a navy su misura single-breasted suit by Ermenegildo Zegna.  The fabric was Soltex wool, a very light fabric with a slight sheen.  Pants were flat front.  The shirt was also by Zegna, white cotton broadcloth.  The shoes and belt were matched brown peeble-grain captoes by Salvatore Ferragamo. Oh, almost forgot me: diaphanous silk Diane von Furstenberg paisley (pastel colors, mostly pink and green) cache-cœur, asymetrical beige skirt split over right knee, brown open toe high heel shoes. My score: I was only unsure about the Irish couple.  I didn't think they were Americans, I thought maybe Australian, but in the end could not figure out their nationality, until I heard them talk, of course.  It surely isn't an exact science, but you can read a lot into a person's clothing.  And not just nationality.

agreed, I do this all the time. although, as a salesman, I am also busy reading a lot about the personality of people in their dress, too. although nothing is perfect, every little bit helps.

 

[LA Guy]

Fabienne: You said your accent is less noticeable when you speak English.  Actually, the French accent is very attractive to hear when a woman speaks English.

I can attest to the fact that Fabienne has a very charming accent.