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Cleverley appreciation thread

dauster

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I'm not an expert but I would expect to see a crease where the foot bends and not a wrinkle near the small toe.
can't wait for the customer to point it out to the glasgows but even more so I can't for their response or should I say lack thereof ?
 

Sreezy36

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Does anyone here have any experience with cleverley made to measure/semi bespoke? If so, were your fit issues resolved with the last adjustments? Lastly, were there various options available in terms of leather choice and sole?
 

shrink1061

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So I'm new to the cleverley game, but have been stacking up on quite a few pairs recently. All from the RTW lineup. I find them utterly superb for the money, but a few points below which are confusing, pleasing, interesting:

- Clearly made my Crockett & Jones to something around a handgrade level (possibly slightly beyond)
- They all seem to come up significantky more "snug" than their C&J counterparts. My Adams would appear to be a 337 last, but are slimmer, more snug and a better fit overall than my crockett 337's. Ditto for the Thomas Monks in what appears to be some kind of 348 / 358 last. My 348's always have too much material over the vamp, but these are much closer fitting across the top of the foot and have a slimmer waist than a 348. So unsure if they're standard crockett lasts or are being modified in some way.
-The GC Thomas, clearly uses the same last as my Richard James Hallam, again, probably a modified 358 of some kind.
-Superb leather, not that I've ever had bad leather from even standard crocketts.

But the big thing for me, is that being less well known, you can pick up RTW cleverleys via Mr Porter / The Rake etc for a fraction of their retail cost. Making them not only a better fit for me, but also a significantly cheaper route into Crockett Handgrade quality.

I'll continue to collect as many interesting cleverleys as budget allows.
 

clee1982

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Pretty sure GC used CJ/AS (when they were still around)/EG across various line, various distribution channel and varying quality at different price point. So think it’s just very hard to make generic statements
 

shrink1061

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Pretty sure GC used CJ/AS (when they were still around)/EG across various line, various distribution channel and varying quality at different price point. So think it’s just very hard to make generic statements
Kingsman by GC is AS,

All current lower end RTW is crockett

higher end RTW is EG

bespoke is their own work
 

othertravel

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So I'm new to the cleverley game, but have been stacking up on quite a few pairs recently. All from the RTW lineup. I find them utterly superb for the money, but a few points below which are confusing, pleasing, interesting:

- Clearly made my Crockett & Jones to something around a handgrade level (possibly slightly beyond)
- They all seem to come up significantky more "snug" than their C&J counterparts. My Adams would appear to be a 337 last, but are slimmer, more snug and a better fit overall than my crockett 337's. Ditto for the Thomas Monks in what appears to be some kind of 348 / 358 last. My 348's always have too much material over the vamp, but these are much closer fitting across the top of the foot and have a slimmer waist than a 348. So unsure if they're standard crockett lasts or are being modified in some way.
-The GC Thomas, clearly uses the same last as my Richard James Hallam, again, probably a modified 358 of some kind.
-Superb leather, not that I've ever had bad leather from even standard crocketts.

But the big thing for me, is that being less well known, you can pick up RTW cleverleys via Mr Porter / The Rake etc for a fraction of their retail cost. Making them not only a better fit for me, but also a significantly cheaper route into Crockett Handgrade quality.

I'll continue to collect as many interesting cleverleys as budget allows.
The C&J Cleverlys are not not handgrade. They're closer to benchgrade +. That is, they have closed-channel soles, but the leather is on par with benchgrade. C&J shoes for Brooks Brothers was similar in that respect (benchgrade, but with closed channel soles).
 

shrink1061

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The C&J Cleverlys are not not handgrade. They're closer to benchgrade +. That is, they have closed-channel soles, but the leather is on par with benchgrade. C&J shoes for Brooks Brothers was similar in that respect (benchgrade, but with closed channel soles).
My experience of owning both handgrade and benchgrade shoes suggests otherwise. The GC have full leather inner socks (instead of half sock on mainline), superbly soft leather thinner and better creasing than bench, closer fitting qualities and much better sole finishing. They're nowhere near bench grade.

I have easilly 15-20 pairs of crockett bench, and another 5-10 handgrade. Theres nothing to seperate the quality of the GC from handgrade. If anything, the GC has better fit.
 

othertravel

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My experience of owning both handgrade and benchgrade shoes suggests otherwise. The GC have full leather inner socks (instead of half sock on mainline), superbly soft leather thinner and better creasing than bench, closer fitting qualities and much better sole finishing. They're nowhere near bench grade.

I have easilly 15-20 pairs of crockett bench, and another 5-10 handgrade. Theres nothing to seperate the quality of the GC from handgrade. If anything, the GC has better fit.
Only one way to settle this: ask C&J directly!
 

shrink1061

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Only one way to settle this: ask C&J directly!
they're very tight lipped about it all. Neither company seems interested in talking about the relationship. I guess because if either of us is right, someone loses. E.g. are GC charging too much for benchgrade+ or are Crockett charging more than GC for the same level of shoe.

No one wins, so i'd be surprised if either are willing to talk about it.

The only person ive ever got to be honest about where the shoes are coming from is Sarah at Bodileys. We've had a few discussion about who is making her two main lines of shoes.
 

clee1982

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Bodileys was easy to guess though, like they use to put last number there for their CJ, though now you have to ask for it, guess CJ wasn't happy about that.

edit: Paul Stuart will also happily tell you the maker and last, make things easier for me for sure
 

othertravel

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they're very tight lipped about it all. Neither company seems interested in talking about the relationship. I guess because if either of us is right, someone loses. E.g. are GC charging too much for benchgrade+ or are Crockett charging more than GC for the same level of shoe.

No one wins, so i'd be surprised if either are willing to talk about it.

The only person ive ever got to be honest about where the shoes are coming from is Sarah at Bodileys. We've had a few discussion about who is making her two main lines of shoes.
The secrecy makes sense to a certain extent (like say, if a retailer is offering a private label C&J-made shoe that has no discernible difference from the stock model, but is sold at a higher price).

The Armoury's in-house shoes are made by Cheaney's but they don't like to talk about it even though their models are on exclusive lasts. Again, it's completely up to them whether they want to divulge that info. For me, I just enjoy talking shop - I'm not trying to steal their trade secrets in any way.
 

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