Clear definition of 100s, 120s, etc.

[cdelsolar]

I'm sorry about this question since it has probably been addressed before but I haven't been able to find a clear definition as to the methodology used.

I know that the higher the number, the thinner or finer the thread is but how is the number derived?

I once heard that the number is the length in meters of 1kg. worth of thread.

Is this correct?

Thank you for your help!

 

[Jovan]

I forget exactly what it's from...

What I do know is that it's a good idea to stay in the 100s-120s for suitings. They wear better over time, and there are some really luxurious suitings made in that grade despite the concept that "more/bigger is better" for a lot of things.

 

[scnupe7]

Originally Posted by cdelsolar

I'm sorry about this question since it has probably been addressed before but I haven't been able to find a clear definition as to the methodology used.

I know that the higher the number, the thinner or finer the thread is but how is the number derived?

I once heard that the number is the length in meters of 1kg. worth of thread.

Is this correct?

Thank you for your help!


Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is the thread count per square inch.

 

[gdl203]

It's a code for maximum fiber diameter

Originally, the # refers to the length in centimeters one woolen yarn can be stretched. Hence, Super 100's yarn is stretched to 100 centimeters, Super 120's to 120 cm and so on... but the use of these terms and their measurement is more precisely codified and set by fiber diameter range (see below)

Definition
The International Wool Textile Organization has codified fabric quality definitions relating to the use of Super "X" and "X" descriptions, stating:
Fabric Labelling Code of Practice

Pure Wool Fabrics.
The word Super (as in SUPER 100's, for example) can only be used to describe fabrics made from pure new wool, and the "X" value is determined by, and must comply with the Maximum Fibre Diameter values in the following table:
"X" Value Maximum Fibre Diameter SUPER 80's 19.75 m SUPER 170's 15.25 m
SUPER 90's 19.25 micron SUPER 180's 14.75 m
SUPER 100's 18.75 m SUPER 190's 14.25 m
SUPER 110's 18.25 m SUPER 200's 13.75 m
SUPER 120's 17.75 m SUPER 210's 13.25 m
SUPER 130's 17.25 m SUPER 220's * 12.75 m
SUPER 140's 16.75 m SUPER 230's * 12.25 m
SUPER 150's 16.25 m SUPER 240's * 11.75 m
SUPER 160's 15.75 m SUPER 250's * 11.25 m


* Proposed description of 220's, 230's, 240's and 250's.

SUPER "X" descriptions can also be used for fabrics made from wool blended with rare fibres (such as mohair, cashmere and alpaca), and also with silk. The inclusion of elasthane to give the fabric a stretch effect is permitted, as also is the inclusion of up to 5% non-wool yarn for decorative effects.

The Test Methods to be used to determine Mean Fibre Diameter values are:

IWTO -8 (PROJECTION MICROSCOPE) or

IWTO - 12 (LASERSCAN)

Wool Blend Fabrics.
For wool blend fabric descriptions, the word Super is not permitted. Subject to the wool content being at least 45%, the "X" value must comply with the following table:
"X" Value Maximum Fibre Diameter X" Value Maximum Fibre Diameter
80's 19.75 micron 170's 15.25 m
90's 19.25 m 180's 14.75 m
100's 18.75 m 190's 14.25 m
110's 18.25 m 200's 13.75 m
120's 17.75 m 210's 13.25 m
130's 17.25 m 220's * 12.75 m
140's 16.75 m 230's * 12.25 m
150's 16.25 m 240's * 11.75 m
160's 15.75 m 250's * 11.25 m


* Proposed description of 220's, 230's, 240's and 250's.

The Test Methods to be used to determine Mean Fibre Diameter values are:

IWTO -8 (PROJECTION MICROSCOPE)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Regulation
On December 20, 2006, President Bush signed into law the Wool Suit Fabric Labeling Fairness and International Standards Conforming Act, amending the Wool Products Labeling Act of 1939 by incorporating the IWTO Fabric Labelling Code of Practice.

The law states that a wool product shall be misbranded--

`(5) In the case of a wool product stamped, tagged, labeled, or otherwise identified as--

`(A) `Super 80's' or `80's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 19.75 microns or finer;

`(B) `Super 90's' or `90's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 19.25 microns or finer;

`(C) `Super 100's' or `100's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 18.75 microns or finer;

`(D) `Super 110's' or `110's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 18.25 microns or finer;

`(E) `Super 120's' or `120's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 17.75 microns or finer;

`(F) `Super 130's' or `130's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 17.25 microns or finer;

`(G) `Super 140's' or `140's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 16.75 microns or finer;

`(H) `Super 150's' or `150's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 16.25 microns or finer;

`(I) `Super 160's' or `160's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 15.75 microns or finer;

`(J) `Super 170's' or `170's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 15.25 microns or finer;

`(K) `Super 180's' or `180's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 14.75 microns or finer;

`(L) `Super 190's' or `190's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 14.25 microns or finer;

`(M) `Super 200's' or `200's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 13.75 microns or finer;

`(N) `Super 210's' or `210's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 13.25 microns or finer;

`(O) `Super 220's' or `220's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 12.75 microns or finer;

`(P) `Super 230's' or `230's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 12.25 microns or finer;

`(Q) `Super 240's' or `240's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 11.75 microns or finer; and

`(R) `Super 250's' or `250's', if the average diameter of wool fiber of such wool product does not average 11.25 microns or finer.

In each such case, the average fiber diameter of such wool product may be subject to such standards or deviations as adopted by regulation by the Commission.

`(6) In the case of a wool product stamped, tagged, labeled, or otherwise identified as cashmere, if--

`(A) such wool product is not the fine (dehaired) undercoat fibers produced by a cashmere goat (capra hircus laniger);

`(B) the average diameter of the fiber of such wool product exceeds 19 microns; or

`(C) such wool product contains more than 3 percent (by weight) of cashmere fibers with average diameters that exceed 30 microns.

The average fiber diameter may be subject to a coefficient of variation around the mean that shall not exceed 24 percent.'.

The amendments made by this section shall apply to wool products manufactured on or after January 1, 2007.

A violation of the Wool Products Labeling Act, or the Federal Trade Commission’s (FTC) rules under that acts, is considered an unfair method of competition and an unfair and deceptive act or practice under the Federal Trade Commission Act.

The FTC Act provides various remedies for these violations. The Commission may issue an administrative order prohibiting the act or practice that violates the FTC Act. Violators of an administrative order are subject to monetary civil penalties of up to $11,000 for each violation. Each instance of mislabeling under the Wool Products Labeling Act is considered a separate violation.

Businesses not subject to a previous administrative order also can be subject to monetary civil penalties, an injunction, and other remedies — including consumer redress — in a federal district court action. The Commission can bring a civil penalty case against a company that knowingly engages in practices — such as the mislabeling of textile products — that the Commission has determined in prior cases to be unfair or deceptive. In this kind of case, “knowledge” refers to knowledge of the law. Because the Commission has widely distributed copies of the statutes, rules, and prior decisions in the wool area, many manufacturers and sellers have knowledge of the labeling requirements.

Improperly labeled imported items can be held up by Customs and possibly subject to liquidated damages.

 

[ezboy1000]

I love the geek on this board. All the topics I can't talk to my buds about without having them stare incredulously at me are welcome here. Not only do you get your ostensible answer, but you get the minutiae that only SF members can provide.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by gdl203

Originally, the # refers to the length in centimeters one woolen yarn can be stretched. Hence, Super 100's yarn is stretched to 100 centimeters.
Not exactly.

The number refers to what the Yorkshire wool mechants call "count." Raw wool is brought to market in bales, weighed by the pound. The fibers are then spun into yarn in units called "hanks." One hank is a spool totallying 560 yards of yarn. (Spun yard makes up the threads that are woven into cloth.) "Count" refers to how many hanks you can spin out of one pound of raw wool. 80s count yields 80 hanks, and so on. The finer the raw wool fibers, the more hanks that can be spun from one pound of raw wool and the finer and smoother the resulting cloth will feel.

However, the micronage reference list you posted is correct.

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by Manton

Not exactly.

The number refers to what the Yorkshire wool mechants call "count." Raw wool is brought to market in bales, weighed by the pound. The fibers are then spun into yarn in units called "hanks." One hank is a spool totallying 560 yards of yarn. (Spun yard makes up the threads that are woven into cloth.) "Count" refers to how many hanks you can spin out of one pound of raw wool. 80s count yields 80 hanks, and so on. The finer the raw wool fibers, the more hanks that can be spun from one pound of raw wool and the finer and smoother the resulting cloth will feel.

However, the micronage reference list you posted is correct.
Looks like I may have vehiculated wrong information until now... I stand corrected

Vive le metric system !!

 

[malloppa1]

I also have read a bout the # was measured on how many centimeters a yarn could be stretched before breakage hence a yarn that could be stretched 120cm before breaking was called s120.
but what Manton posted also makes sense, maybe its a combination of the 2.