Classic Navy Blazer vs. Sack Navy Blazer

[neyus]

Originally Posted by Dewey

Doesn't the term "athletic fit" usually mean broad shoulders, trim waist? The sack is the opposite of this: narrow shoulders, full waist. So I think the RTW sack is a better starting point for the man with narrow shoulders.

You are correct to a degree, but if you already have large broad shoulders and you wear a jacket with heavily padded shoulders, how is that going to flatter your figure?

You need something with a natural shoulder. Yes, a sack a full waist, but that can be taken in.

Here's a picture of a sack on a guy from Ask Andy About Clothes Forum. It doesn't look bad, even unaltered.

I would look at getting something with very little padding in the shoulders. I think even the Brook Brother coats I have seen have more padding in them than Ralph Lauren, and Brooks are suppose to be purveyors of the natural shoulder look.

 

[englanderjk]

Originally Posted by neyus

You are correct to a degree, but if you already have large broad shoulders and you wear a jacket with heavily padded shoulders, how is that going to flatter your figure?

You need something with a natural shoulder. Yes, a sack a full waist, but that can be taken in.

Here's a picture of a sack on a guy from Ask Andy About Clothes Forum. It doesn't look bad, even unaltered.

I would look at getting something with very little padding in the shoulders. I think even the Brook Brother coats I have seen have more padding in them than Ralph Lauren, and Brooks are suppose to be purveyors of the natural shoulder look.
So basically we're saying that the "sack", while only slightly more flattering than it's namesake off the rack, offers greater potential to accentuate ones athletic shoulder/torso as compared with the "classic" (with the built up shoulder and darts ). The "sack" then might be compared to a blank canvass with unlimited creative options/potential, while the "classic" is somewhat limited by its preconceptions,(i.e., padded/roped shoulder, darts, etc.), especially for one with an athletic build. I think I'm getting closer to the truth (as much as one applies under such subjective circumstances). Please let me know if you disagree.

 

[GeorgePaul]

Originally Posted by englanderjk

The "sack" then might be compared to a blank canvass with unlimited creative options/potential, while the "classic" is somewhat limited by its preconceptions,(i.e., padded/roped shoulder, darts, etc.), especially for one with an athletic build. .... Please let me know if you disagree.
I disagree. The sack has less structure; the classic has more structure. It's as simple as that. If you like less structure, get the sack. If not, get the classic.

 

[englanderjk]

Originally Posted by GeorgePaul

I disagree. The sack has less structure; the classic has more structure. It's as simple as that. If you like less structure, get the sack. If not, get the classic.

Even after adding structure to the "sack" with seam adjustments and in light of the "sack" providing less structure to a shoulder that doesn't need it?

I don't mean to sound disingenuous (by continuing to ask questions), I'm truly grateful for your comments and critique. After considering everything that been contributed on this subject, I'll attempt to rephrase the question(s).

If you have an athletic build / well developed shoulder
would'nt you find greater potential to accentuate said build with the "sack"? Would one wish to add structure to or accent a part of the body that is inherently structured (aside from one's personal preference to further accentuate even further)?

Is there any situation where someone with an athletic build would desire the structure of the "classic" over the unstructured "sack", other than personal preference?

 

[drizzt3117]

honestly you need to stop hypothesizing about the fit and try them on to see what looks good on you. It's not necessarily true that a natural shoulder looks better on those with athletic fits. I have ~12" drop and I often wear suits with a lot of shoulder structure (Brioni) which I think look fine in the shoulder. That said, BB's GF (Greenfield) blazer looks pretty good as well.

 

[Edward Appleby]

If you're getting interested in tailored clothing don't start out buying sack suits. Chances are you'd wish you'd gotten normal jackets with darts.

 

[The_Foxx]

I think ben silver does a good job of showing the contrast between the two blazer types--

http://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefro...y=4584&group=1

http://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefro...y=5160&group=1

http://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefro...y=8370&group=1

I think you can click the photos for a larger view, and compare them side by side.

 

[Viktri]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

honestly you need to stop hypothesizing about the fit and try them on to see what looks good on you. It's not necessarily true that a natural shoulder looks better on those with athletic fits. I have ~12" drop and I often wear suits with a lot of shoulder structure (Brioni) which I think look fine in the shoulder. That said, BB's GF (Greenfield) blazer looks pretty good as well.

Agree; it might have something to do with the rounding of the shoulders (wide shoulders round out heavily at the end) and the structure makes them look better imo

 

[dks202]

Originally Posted by Mookie

Ask and ye shall receive... let me go get my tripod...

EDIT: Photos attached. In the two pictures of the shoulder, I'm holding the blazer by the collar so that you can see how the padding drapes without a shoulder or hanger inside of it. I think you'll see what I mean about it being fairly minimal, but still there...

Click on the thumbnails for full size:



BB'ing out- BB OCBD, blazer, silk knit tie, and chinos. Poor focus by Kodak and Mookie.


For the record, this is the Two Button Classic Navy Blazer.



Looks too short, button stance too high. Maybe you require a LONG.

Just my opinion.

 

[mack11211]

Here is a sack blazer.

I am the seller.

I pinned it a little for the picture, but you get the idea.

Among the details: three button front rolling to the second button, the soft natural shoulder, and the undarted coat front,

 

[dmac]

I have the BB Navy Blazer. While it is a "sack" the model is cut with a bit more waist suppression than other sack offerings.

I do second the suggestion of trying on different cuts if possible to see what you like. Some with an athletic body may like the fit of a structure coat with padded shoulders and others may not.

 

[OttoSkadelig]

Originally Posted by englanderjk

Similar what I was thinking...thanks for the confirming comments. I presume that an athletic build or built up shoulder/upper back region would warrant the more natural shoulder. The "sackiness" of the jacket could then be adjusted/diminished with back side seam tailoring. I'm looking at the Brooks classic blue blazer, do you have any knowledge of its shoulder structure?
Thank you again for your help.
JKE

careful though. a sack will tend to have a low armhole. this will limit how much you can taper the body. take it in too much and you will create an exaggerated hourglass shape that will look really goofy. you want something with a moderately high armhole. too high and you will not be able to get into the jacket. too low, and you get a bad fit that won't look athletic. i'd say this is just as important as the padding, if not more so.

 

[OttoSkadelig]

Originally Posted by englanderjk

So basically we're saying that the "sack", while only slightly more flattering than it's namesake off the rack, offers greater potential to accentuate ones athletic shoulder/torso as compared with the "classic" (with the built up shoulder and darts ). The "sack" then might be compared to a blank canvass with unlimited creative options/potential, while the "classic" is somewhat limited by its preconceptions,(i.e., padded/roped shoulder, darts, etc.), especially for one with an athletic build. I think I'm getting closer to the truth (as much as one applies under such subjective circumstances). Please let me know if you disagree.

no.

the sack is not some abstract "universal set" of infinitely flexible configurations. it makes choices too. see earlier point about armholes.

the shoulders and armholes are the "T" that make up the skeleton of the jacket. they can't be changed. the armholes have very real implications for the quality of the fit. don't focus just on the shoulders. as another poster has said, strong shoulders can work well on an athletic physique. the reason why a Brioni -- a strong-shouldered italian suit -- for example, works even on an athletic body is that typically the armholes -- like those of most italian suits -- are moderately high. so the contour of the jacket underneath your armpits follows your lats and still ends up looking athletic. (it also helps that their shoulder is very clean and tight -- vs. the spongey crap that you will find on most OTR suits.)

what looks dreadful is the fluffed-up-strong-shoulder PLUS low-armholes combination that you find on the typical american OTR suit. a horrible fit that will turn even the most athletic guy into a shapeless box is guaranteed.

my view is that the sack is really best suited for the average to large physique. not for a highly athletic one. hardly surprising, since it is a slouchy cut designed for comfort first and foremost.

as others have said, you really need to get out there and try stuff on. that's the only way this will all start to get real.

 

[Nicola]

Originally Posted by dks202

Looks too short, button stance too high. Maybe you require a LONG.

Just my opinion.

After three years I doubt he is too worried.

 

[amplifiedheat]

Originally Posted by englanderjk

If you have an athletic build / well developed shoulder
would'nt you find greater potential to accentuate said build with the "sack"? Would one wish to add structure to or accent a part of the body that is inherently structured (aside from one's personal preference to further accentuate even further)?

You're thinking about this in the wrong way. Men with muscular shoulders can still need padding. The variable is shoulder slope. For instance, men with a pronounced trapezius will appear to have oddly sloping shoulders without padding to compensate.