Classic Menswear Lounge

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by TweedyProf, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    LOL, no I was not trying to say piss of. What I was saying though, and with a brief background, was this:

    When I came to the realization that I sucked, some years ago, and started getting, and listening to, a lot of feedback, I was a wimp. Someone said something was bad, I ate it up, and changed. I am open to feedback, so if someone said I was doing something wrong, or could it better, I tossed out any ideas I had, and blindly followed. Now, I think in some ways that was good, and I gained a lot from that, and it was what I needed at the time, but I came to realize soon after that, there was rarely consensus on how something looked, and even with the "rules" (as we see with the stripe shirt topic) there was often a variety of opinions.

    As such, I would change something, and then someone wold say no its fine, dont change, or do something else. After not to long my head was spinning. There was no way to get a definitive answer, and no matter what, the many experts would be divided in what I should do.

    At a point I realized, hey, I'm not perfect, but I have learned enough to know a thing or two, and instead of just blindly doing what I am told, I am first going to absorb all the information and opinions, and then I will decide which camp I personally agree with, and that is the route I will take. That inherently means that some people, knowledgeable people, and sometimes quite vehemently, will say I screwed the pooch, but thats ok. I have a backbone and a thick enough skin, and I am confident in my choice, and know that it is within the bounds of good taste or nice looking or whatever term you want to use.

    Back to the topic at hand. I was not putting my fingers in my ears and saying "nahnahnahnah Im not listening Im so pretty nahnahnahnah." What I was saying was, and this is something I have said before, and I stand by it steadfastly, in the end, menswear is an excersize in aesthetics, and the end product has to look nice, and what looks nice is different to different people. Because, as the adage goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    So, as it so happens, personally, I felt that my combination was spot on. I know that makes me sound like a douche, but why should I lie? I enjoyed it, and I was pleased with it without exception. Perhaps the tasteful thing is to agree to every critique even when you dont, but thats dishonest for the sake of saving face, and spineless. On top of that, there were people, like Murl, who also thought the combination was dead on. Because, aesthetics are never the same to everyone. There are times I see things I dont like on others, but I know thats just my preference and what they are wearing is fine, and probably appealing to others with as much, or more, knowledge as me. Its one thing if I think something is just bad, or wildly incoherent, or against a staid rule, but when its just, oh that does not float my boat exactly, I dont expert the wearer to necessarily ask how high when I say jump.

    I could have "agreed" to every critique, but then some disliked the shirt, but were ok with the rest, others the tie, or PS, or some combo of the 3. There was no consensus. So I agree with the guy who is ok with all but the square and then I agree with the guy who is ok with all but the tie, and all of a sudden I have contradicted myself because I was being dishonest with my agreement, and now Im waving back and forth every other post changing this and changing that. For what?

    As always, I appreciate all the feedback I get here, and believe me I always think about it and absorb it, but that does not mean that I, or anyone else, has to adhere to it without question. We all have different nuances in our likes and dislikes, and I never expect that any one rig will appeal to the max to everyone, and thats just fine. It breeds a lot of the great discourse we have here.

    Wow. Was not expecting to ramble that much.
     


  2. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Listen, discuss, learn, then think for yourself (Cliff notes version of Stitch's treatise above).

    I like Stitch's reasoning for how he paired the tie and the square. Makes sense to me. I like the fit. Perhaps a different hank might make me like it more, another less.

    I see the point about warmth/contrast against the rest. Next time Stitch, when you put on that fit, put in a less contrast square, if you don't mind, and we can put the two pics together. To minimize confounds, you have to go back to the location with your photographer friend etc.

    BTW: I keep seeing Luca R.'s fit on the right, speaking of dark blue grounds and asymmetrical stripes...hmmm...
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015


  3. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    Grad school (or at least the ideal of what it should be) in a nutshell.

    I'm glad Stitchy doesn't feel compelled to agree with every critique. He shouldn't and neither should most of us. As long as we are open to criticism and acknowledge that we are fallible, we're fine. Within the realm of good taste, there's a lot of room to play and we can have different preferences.
     


  4. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    I think I generally agree with @in stitches and can see where he's coming from. After a while you develop the combination of confidence and knowledge that means you really do know what you are doing and what you want to be doing, and there's not a lot more that you're going to alter based on feedback here. It doesn't mean that you think you're better than anyone else or that you can't develop further, just that you know what you like, what works for you, what are the pathways to further improvement, and that it's not just some egotistical delusion*.

    It's actually one of the reasons I've not been too excited to posts fits here these days, with the particular extra reason that almost everything I get back from people is down to limitations of the way I've been taking pictures and most of the time have very little bearing on how good (or not) I look in real life. I've also realised (pretty much all along, actually) that I'm just not interested in making any more of an effort to take pictures of myself, much as I appreciate the efforts of those who do here.

    *In case anyone thinks that this applies to anyone from day one, it doesn't. Unless you are one of those unusual people who have such an natural sense of style that you never had to try, you really can't avoid going through the often painful process of first realising that you don't look that great, getting hammered here, taking all the advice you get too personally and too literally, and so on, that Stitchy outlined in his own story. It won't be quite the same for everyone but there's a always difficult journey of some kind.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015


  5. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    man alive I wish I could write as concisely as that.

    In all likelihood the next iteration will be with a white square, and of course I will endeavor to do so in the same location with the same photographer.


    :cheers:

    Well said, archi. Another winner of concise posting goodness.
     


  6. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    LOL I'm not the concise one in this thread...usually.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015


  7. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    Indeed.

    I would suggest that warmth and saturation are separate sliders to adjust. One can have a warm, unsaturated palette (e.g. khaki suit, cream shirt, pale brown tie).
     


  8. heldentenor

    heldentenor Senior member

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    The culture around WAYWRN is, for better or worse, largely about how well your fit is depicted. That is be a good fit is (usually) a necessary precondition, but people want to look at pretty pictures of pretty things. I post pretty regularly because I still do want feedback, but also because I like the idea of WAYWRN as an archive, not a portrait gallery. I'd rather see more bad or mediocre pictures of good fits than fewer.

    Did folks see Mr. Six's fit yesterday? It was really, really good, and it got a respectable but unexceptional dozen thumbs and (more importantly) didn't really get talked about. I don't know what that's about, but I think it's connected to what you're saying, FM--that he took quick snapshots in an office.

    Don't get me wrong--I appreciate and hugely enjoy the photographs of well dressed people that are executed with real skill and care. But will there be enough of those to give WAYWRN enough vitality if people like yourself back away?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015


  9. UrbanComposition

    UrbanComposition Senior member

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    Mr Six is consistently very, very good.
     


  10. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Mr. Six doesn't need 20 thumbs to show that the fit was excellent (and let's not revisit the issue of thumbing).

    I hope some of the regular posters (who are typically Noodles or thoughtful WAYWRNers, i.e. those who give good advice and have good taste) might occasionally post some fits here of their own for discussion. We would recognize their excellence.
     


  11. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sometimes fits--especially from posters who are pretty consistent--don't get discussed. My standard fare rarely warrants comment. I generally dress pretty safely and the majority of my photos are close to identical in their framing and location, so nobody says anything unless I do something unusual. I suspect it's the same with mrsix
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015


  12. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl The Moral Squirrel Dubiously Honored Moderator

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    I rarely remember to thumb anything. I need to to a better job of it....going to find 6's post.
     


  13. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Senior member

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    Here's @Betelgeuse showing us all how to do asymmetric stripes.

    [​IMG]

    This might have too many patterns for some, but I really like it - despite his shirt having a 1:2 foreground/background width ratio. (the horror....the...horror...)
     


  14. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    I suspect there is a maximum disparity between ground and stripe, and it's greater than 2:1.
     


  15. Mr. Six

    Mr. Six Senior member

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    That genuinely means a lot coming from you. Thanks!

    I appreciate everyone else's kind words as well.

    It seems to me that the WAYT thread only irregularly generates substantive conversation about fits. I would conjecture that it largely has to do with a form of politeness. It's not a thread that has a convention of critique and positive reaction beyond thumbs seems to depend on individual reactions and relationships. To use myself as an example, I hesitated to make any comments about Stitches's grey suit photos because it was good fit overall, my minor points were nitpicking, and that just isn't generally what people do in WAYT. But then FlyingMonkey commented about it so I did too. Plus, I know that Stitchy can take it and knows it's all meant with the best intentions.

    As for my fit yesterday, to use another example, I thought it looked nice but there wasn't much to say about it, really. It generated about my usual number of thumbs. I'm glad some people liked it. (And my photos are poor to middling and unlikely to improve.)

    @heldentenor I was looking at your fit today and remembered that I'd tried something similar about a year ago. I concluded that it looked OK but was probably too many straight lines next to each other. I think, as compared to yours, it benefited from a lighter tie with a slightly less dense pattern. Here it is, in case you're interested.

    [​IMG]
     


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