Citizens On Patrol Thread...forum rules you would like to see

[Matt]

OK, a lot of talk in TransMod in the past few days about cleaning the place up a bit, and some changes in tone in the past year or so. As such, thought, I would start a thread asking you guys to suggest some rules, guidelines, or principles for SF that may help us to raise the tone a little in the coming months. I have a few.... 1. be nice to the noobs or say nothing at all. We are scaring good people away by being dicks. 2. keep the dumb threads in a place conveniently titled dumb threads 3. no socks. The only reason people start socks is to say crap they aren't man enough to say under their own name. So, then, don't say it. I have been on a bit of a rampage there and will continue to out puppeteers. So, you guys...what do you think? What do you think we need to do here. Barbarian that I am, I generally have no issue with smutty humor, and anyone from here who has met me will attest to that, I am very much a boy's boy - but there is a line between the-odd-tit-joke and 'all we talk about is ****', and we have swung a little too far in the second direction lately. We have never been a rule-governed place, and I don't think we ever will...we have however always been a tone-governed forum, and fallen back on the bar metaphor as a guideline. That's not going to change either, but we do wanna make sure we continue to have a welcoming bar that people like drinking in. Listening with interest...oh...and being a dick in this thread would really really be unwise

 

[Redwoood]

Rules are meaningless without a punishment for violating them and a plan to enforce them.
I've always thought that half of what you listed up there was already part of the forum rules
(no offensive, harassing behaviour, etc).
So is it more a question of enforcement?

 

[Thomas]

I like this and think it's time.

That's all I have at the moment, though.

 

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Redwoood

Rules are meaningless without a punishment for violating them and a plan to enforce them. I've always thought that half of what you listed up there was already part of the forum rules (no offensive, harassing behaviour, etc). So is it more a question of enforcement?
maybe, but at the same time, as per my final par, we have never been a here-is-the-commandment-and-here-is-the-consequence place other than when we go on particular sprees to weed out a certain conduct (eg about six months ago, I went on a 'no swearing in thread title' rampage, and timeouts were liberal) and basically the behavior was stamped out. I am in a similar mood over sockliferation at present. Fok's in it up to his ears in FS. None of us wanna be that kind of mod on every single rule, and none of us want to see it turn into an overly-governed police state, that's no fun for anyone, and as per Rach's comment in TransMod this morning (my time!) weilding the ban-hammer like mad-men does not create an environment people enjoy. Basically the purpose of this thread is to put it out there to the guys who are lamenting certain changes with time, growing pains, and established norms here, to propose to us how you would like to see that changed, what you would like to see changed and why. We can't really be fairer than that can we?

 

[Kent Wang]

I think just a PM to offending posters would change the tone. It would not even be in the form of a warning with implied consequences for non-compliance, but it would be more like you're at a bar and one of the regulars pulls you aside for a chat.

A hundred PMs or so sent out over a week would quickly have an effect.

 

[SpooPoker]

TBH, I think its pretty good as is. Nothing glaringly wrong from me.

 

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

I think just a PM to offending posters would change the tone. It would not even be in the form of a warning with implied consequences for non-compliance, but it would be more like you're at a bar and one of the regulars pulls you aside for a chat. A hundred PMs or so sent out over a week would quickly have an effect.
glad you bought in Kent, you are one of the guys I don't see around as much as I would like. Do you think those have to come from mods (ie does the bar manager have to pull people aside) or from guys like yourself who have been around for a long time and carry a certain degree of authority? Or should you guys just CC us on what you write? We certainly don't wanna get to a point where the lunatics run the asylum, end up with every moron PMing every other moron telling him how it is supposed to be, but there is a core of people who - certainly in my opinion - carry that authority with their longevity. But then again, some of those guys are pretty argument-prone too..... Do you think we need to duly-deputise more people? Encourage the use of 'report post' for a lot more than just 'he hurt my feelins', spam, and FS violations?

 

[SpooPoker]

Who does the report post mail go to, actually? Ive been meaning to ask that.

 

[Kent Wang]

Probably needs to be mods only. If you get a PM from any regular user like this, you'd just ignore him and think he's a dickhead; but if you get it from a mod you'd react very differently. I'm not even sure if deputized highly-respected members would work; I can imagine the reaction simply being "old fogey has gone off the deep end" if, for example, Manton sent them a chiding PM.

 

[F. Corbera]

I do not see any indication that interesting new posters have been chased away. Where would they go?

At least in the Mens Clothing forum, n00b threads in the last year have been dominated by socks, by spammers, and by the dull or dull witted.

Your main problem in Mens Clothing is that you guys have lost a critical mass of posters who have direct experience with the best in classic mens clothing who are willing either to show their own examples or to spend time discussing something in substance. I do not think that there is a ready conveyer belt of such people, so your chance of replenishing these ranks is near zero.

The CE forum and the Dumb Threads thread are also wellsprings of chaos. You should get rid of both if j, fok and the rest of you are actually interested in a site devoted to clothing and style.

I don't have an opinion about SW&D. I don't read things there anymore.

 

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SpooPoker

Who does the report post mail go to, actually? Ive been meaning to ask that.

All of us. To be honest, they get pretty cumbersome, but they do get read.

 

[Matt]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

I do not see any indication that interesting new posters have been chased away. Where would they go?

they are chased away before they get to become interesting posters.

It used to be, say, a kid shows up with a question about altering a suit his dad had given him, and we would give him useful advice, and sometimes he'd stick around, and sometimes he wouldn't.

These days the useful advice is replaced with snark, he figures the site is full of assholes, and generally, doesn't stick around.

I prefer the old way. Judging by the feedback I hear from a lot of the guys who have been here a while, they do too.

At least in the Mens Clothing forum, n00b threads in the last year have been dominated by socks, by spammers, and by the dull or dull witted.

And as per TransMod, feel free to report any socks that you see or suspect to me personally, and I will look into that.

Spammers, we have taken on an extra mod to manage.

Dull and dull witted will remain proportionate to population, as will all other levels of intellect.

Your main problem in Mens Clothing is that you guys have lost a critical mass of posters who have direct experience with the best in classic mens clothing who are willing either to show their own examples or to spend time discussing something in substance. I do not think that there is a ready conveyer belt of such people, so your chance of replenishing these ranks is near zero.

An interesting point. There is something of a conveyor belt of industry-types, mostly seeking to be involved for the marketing of their own businesses. SWD has attracted more of those than MC in recent times, which may well reflect target customer bases of the businesses and the demographic we have semi-captive here. An interesting point nonetheless.

You should get rid of both if j, fok and the rest of you are actually interested in a site devoted to clothing and style.

I don't know that we are 'devoted to clothing and style' any more. I mean, nominally, absolutely, we are posting somewhere called styleforum, but it has evolved to be more of a lifestyle board than a dedicated-fashion-resource, and certainly, I don't hear a lot of complaints about that.

 

[F. Corbera]

Originally Posted by Matt

I don't know that we are 'devoted to clothing and style' any more. I mean, nominally, absolutely, we are posting somewhere called styleforum, but it has evolved to be more of a lifestyle board than a dedicated-fashion-resource, and certainly, I don't hear a lot of complaints about that.

You're right that SF has changed into more of a lifestyle and asynchronous social media board. But, that is exactly what is attenuating the quality of the Mens Clothing forum.

I do not think that you can have both in one site.

There are logical reasons to choose the former, but if so, I would not waste time trying to reconstitute the latter. The audience for it is too small. Let it wither or move on to sites that are more niched focused...or disappear from the Internet entirely. How many guys on the Internet can speak with direct knowledge of the best in classic mens clothes? A hundred? Two hundred?

Fifty?

When you are asking people to provide free content of some value, you need to have inducements. One inducement is fellowship and convivial discussion among like minded and mutually experienced people. The inducement path that SF has been following, in contrast, is to hold on or cultivate many content creators by giving them outlets in forums or modes of conversation not related to clothing. This is a diluting strategy. You cannot keep the high ground with it.

On other sites, the mods take on the burden of directly answering n00b questions (poor medwards.) On this site, the mods do not have that job and you are essentially asking experienced members to provide that content day in, day out. I think that you've consumed this resource, again, at least as it relates to classic mens clothing.

There's a lot of n00b-on-n00b action in MC now, of no particular worth or note. That chatter puts asses in the seats.

Is that a double entendre? Maybe.

I will also reiterate the suggestion to junk DT and CE. They both breed tempests.

 

[SpooPoker]

Originally Posted by SpooPoker

TBH, I think its pretty good as is. Nothing glaringly wrong from me.

I meant, what Corbera said.

 

[Matt]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

You're right that SF has changed into more of a lifestyle and asynchronous social media board. But, that is exactly what is attenuating the quality of the Mens Clothing forum.

I do not think that you can have both in one site.

There are logical reasons to choose the former, but if so, I would not waste time trying to reconstitute the latter. The audience for it is too small. Let it wither or move on to sites that are more niched focused...or disappear from the Internet entirely. How many guys on the Internet can speak with direct knowledge of the best in classic mens clothes? A hundred? Two hundred?

Fifty?

When you are asking people to provide free content of some value, you need to have inducements. One inducement is fellowship and convivial discussion among like minded and mutually experienced people. The inducement path that SF has been following, in contrast, is to hold on or cultivate many content creators by giving them outlets in forums or modes of conversation not related to clothing. This is a diluting strategy. You cannot keep the high ground with it.

On other sites, the mods take on the burden of directly answering n00b questions (poor medwards.) On this site, the mods do not have that job and you are essentially asking experienced members to provide that content day in, day out. I think that you've consumed this resource, again, at least as it relates to classic mens clothing.

There's a lot of n00b-on-n00b action in MC now, of no particular worth or note. That chatter puts asses in the seats.

Is that a double entendre? Maybe.

I will also reiterate the suggestion to junk DT and CE. They both breed tempests.
interesting points. I will read them later with my thesaurus. Thanks.