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Church's Grafton v. Trickers Keswick.

miurasv

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Which of these shoes is the better quality in terms of build quality, leathers used and durability would you say if you've had/have or have knowledge of these brogue shoes? I am looking for some fine brogues at about this price point but they must be a wide fit. I cannot consider anything less than a G fit. There are other brogues I know but they are not available in wide fittings. Thanks in advance for any replies.
 

Marcellionheart

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According to Herring, the Church Grafton is made primarily with "Polished Binder"; that means corrected grain. I'm fairly confident that the Keswick would the wholeheartedly better shoe. Edit: You might have luck with the Cheaney Tay.
 

miurasv

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Thanks again, Marcel. Is Polished Binder a bad thing then? I really like high shine shoes and also have the Church Westbury (Black) and Burwood (Burgundy) in Polished Binder. I'm not fussed at all on Calf finishes as they are dull and they do actually look dull to me if you know what I mean. I have the Church Grafton in Nevada Calf (Brown) and I only bought them as they were in a sale. What high shine brogues with good quality leather in a wide fit are available?

With regards to the Cheaney Tay, Cheaney as a brand is not as highly regarded as Church's??? or is lower down the pecking order which is realised in their lower prices which is good. Actually could Cheaney be as good as Church's? Do you think the Tay is as good as the Grafton or the Trickers Keswick? I do have a couple of pairs of Cheaneys already, a beautiful Nicky Monk shoe and a Mock Croc Boot. Both have lasted very well but again they are too narrow being an F fit. I did notice that the Tay is a G fit so thanks for recommending that.
 

upnorth

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The Churches bookbinder are fine, especially if you like hi-shine leather that are easy to maintain. They are not the low quality type of leather that people associate with sub-$100 shoes.

They do seem a little overpriced compared to Trickers. If you are an E width on american shoes, then an FX width on Alfred Sargent would fit fine and they are such great value, you'd do well to consider them.
 

Macallan

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Pediwear is selling the Keswick model for £315, while Herring is selling thr Grafton model for £390 - is the latter over priced, not when taking the price of both shoes into account. You can find the Grafton model for less then the price of Cheany's Tay model, although finding your size may be difficult Is polished binder bad? No, especially not the leather used for shoes like the Grafton. In terms of quality and durability - the Grafton wins. If you want a country-shoe, go for the Keswick; if not then get the Grafton.
 

Marcellionheart

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I'm not a fan of the bookbinder leather. It is corrected grain. That having been said, upnorth is right in saying it's not as bad as the $100 leather. But for the price you'd pay for the Graftons, I'd expect more for that money. The Grafton has the same leather as the Burwood (whose design I love save for the leather).

Cheaney's is a brand which is constantly improving. I think most people put them about on par with Church's. If you're in London, you can try them on; they've a shop on Lime St (EC3).
 

txeconomist

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I like the Grafton better by a large margin. Id consider Alden as well.
 

Tidybeard

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Both are very good, solid shoes that will last a long time. Grafton can be found on 3 lasts (100, 73 and 173) and IMO it looks and fits quite different on each. 100 is more chunky, 173 a bit more sleek, for example. It's also available on Dainite or double leather soles and in binder, calf or shell.

Keswick is a lot more "country" with a much more rounded chunky last (although in reality both are extremely hefty shoes compared to something like a C&J handgrade). Depends on preference but I sometimes wear Grafton with a suit if it's wet or snowing but I wouldn't consider wearing any of the Trickers country collection with a suit.

Binder isn't bad and in fact I chose mine in binder (and on Dainite) on purpose as it's much more resistant to bad weather than calf. It's tough and shines up well. I wouldn't bother with the shell option, I have Lancaster and Shannon (the other two shoes in the storm welted range) in shell and it's pretty difficult to take care of and doesn't look as good as some of the better shell shoes.

Trickers leather is nice and they are extremely well constructed. They are a respected manufacturer and will last a long time. Like for like (i.e. in the same leather with the same sole) I would say they are worth about the same price, but I think the Church's name means a bit more in the wider market and they price accordingly.

In reality, both are fantastic shoes, in the top 1% of anything you'll see on a daily basis and will last you a lifetime with due care. Can't do wrong with either.
 

alexSF

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The Grafton is available also in Calf, in 3 colors: nevada , ebony and black. I think that the Grafton in nevada calf is a great looking and versatile brogue and is an iconic Church's model Better and better than the bookbinders
The Keswick is a typical country brogue, they are not comparable in my opinion. See also C&J Pembroke , that is available also in G fitting.
 

rabiesinfrance

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Originally Posted by Tidybeard
Both are very good, solid shoes that will last a long time. Grafton can be found on 3 lasts (100, 73 and 173) and IMO it looks and fits quite different on each. 100 is more chunky, 173 a bit more sleek, for example. It's also available on Dainite or double leather soles and in binder, calf or shell. Keswick is a lot more "country" with a much more rounded chunky last (although in reality both are extremely hefty shoes compared to something like a C&J handgrade). Depends on preference but I sometimes wear Grafton with a suit if it's wet or snowing but I wouldn't consider wearing any of the Trickers country collection with a suit. Binder isn't bad and in fact I chose mine in binder (and on Dainite) on purpose as it's much more resistant to bad weather than calf. It's tough and shines up well. I wouldn't bother with the shell option, I have Lancaster and Shannon (the other two shoes in the storm welted range) in shell and it's pretty difficult to take care of and doesn't look as good as some of the better shell shoes. Trickers leather is nice and they are extremely well constructed. They are a respected manufacturer and will last a long time. Like for like (i.e. in the same leather with the same sole) I would say they are worth about the same price, but I think the Church's name means a bit more in the wider market and they price accordingly. In reality, both are fantastic shoes, in the top 1% of anything you'll see on a daily basis and will last you a lifetime with due care. Can't do wrong with either.
The Tricker's are made in quality box calf, which works well with shoe cream if you want shine.
 

miurasv

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http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/h...urasv/grafton/

Hmm. I already have the Grafton Nevada Calf but they're not holding up well at all. They've gone very thin at the front after only a few wears. None of my other shoes have ever worn like this. Look at the pics in the link and they're even worse now after a couple more wears. Hmm. I wanted to like these shoes so much as I thought really they were the ultimate brogue and they do cost a significant amount of money.
 

rabiesinfrance

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I suppose you're fairly limited if you want good quality. Top 'tier': EG; Lobb; Cleverley; Foster. Middle 'tier': Tricker's; C&J; Grenson; Church's; Cheaney. Bottom 'tier': Loake; Alfred Sargent. If you narrow that down to 'country' brogue, you are left with Tricker's "Bourton/Keswick/Ilkley", Cheaney "Tay", and a few brogues from the C&J range. Tricker's stand out: nicer shoes than either Church's (viva Italia!) or the C&J equivalent, in my opinion. Cheaney is worth a look - nice shoes. Grenson have gone - no "Rose" stuff anymore, unless you are lucky. Now is the time to buy! http://www.hobsonshoes.co.uk/Product...Brogue%20Shoes
 

upnorth

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Many would be offended by your tier. I suggest that you do away with it.
 

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