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Chinos, coat and tie.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by radicaldog, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. radicaldog

    radicaldog Senior member

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    There's a fair amount of discussion of jeans + coat & tie, but what about the above? And I mean non-creased, tendentially wrinkly chinos, not the kind that are basically cotton twill dress trousers. Just one step up from jeans. Post good and bad examples of such combinations, and let's discuss, if you're so inclined. I'm struggling to find any photos that don't feature overly tight clothes and the extremely short coats that are in fashion at the moment.
     
  2. radicaldog

    radicaldog Senior member

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    Ok, just to make a start:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. radicaldog

    radicaldog Senior member

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  4. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    SF has developed some weird ideas about chinos, but I like them, especially for summer wear. They're effortless in a way even linen can't match.

    I do like 'em slim, though. Not skin-tight, but slim and just slightly short, '60s style.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. radicaldog

    radicaldog Senior member

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    I agree. On SF (MC) there is a strong bias towards more formal clothes. I do chinos (and even jeans) and jacket and tie very often, usually with buttondown shirts and knit ties. In fact I rarely wear wool trousers with coat and tie: it strikes me as somewhat fuddy-duddy, so when that level of formality is in order I go with a suit.
     
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  6. Makoto Chan

    Makoto Chan Senior member

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    "And I mean non-creased, tendentially wrinkly chinos, not the kind that are basically cotton twill dress trousers."


    I wear chinos with a jacket very often, especially in the summer.I try to iron them, like you say (haha): "basically cotton twill dress trousers" - but rumpled isn't bad. It's a good look.
     
  7. Andrew Ryan

    Andrew Ryan Senior member

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    Necrothreak, I know, but...

    I agree that this is an underutilized look, or at least insofar as represented on SF. I also wear chinos with casual jackets and tie, always with an unfused soft collar BD casual shirt (i.e., OCBDs for solids/stripes, broadcloths for patterns), and penny loafers. I occasionally wear jeans as well, but only colored ones (mostly light grey). I substitute 2.5" solid grenadines for knits with this look because I just can't stand knits (I know, I know) no matter how much I've tried to embrace them.

    When I dress it up a bit, I swap the chinos and pennies for either flannels, cotton ('cotton dress trousers') or linen, and break out the wider width ties and sleeker, dressier loafers (usually Alden full-straps). I also trade the OCBD's in for broadcloth or poplin, but keep the soft BD collars (I like my collar roll...); when the level of formality requires/suggests higher (usually when I'm with clients), I break out the spread collars and french cuffs, even wider width ties, worsted suits and balmorals.

    I don't think 'wool trousers with coat and tie' is 'somewhat fuddy-duddy', but I do find it impractical (in the social sense) for my day-to-day (when I'm not with clients), which is academia and lab work. Chinos + casual jackets and the right shirts and ties, in the right fabrics and weights and textures, strike a good balance of tailored dress without being overdressed, IMO.

    Or at least that's what I tell myself...
     
  8. Andrew Ryan

    Andrew Ryan Senior member

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    Doin' it right:

    [​IMG]

    Would be good if the collar wasn't a fucking spread:

    [​IMG]

    Would be okay, again, if the collar wasn't a point (see the theme here? maybe I should just say 'if the collar was a button down'):

    [​IMG]

    Would be great if it weren't for the fucking cutaway collar and peak lapeled odd jacket:

    [​IMG]

    A more extreme example, where the fit just doesn't know what it wants to be. More formal odd jacket (blazer, albeit with peak lapels for god knows what reason), ultra casual shirting pattern and color but in a spread collar (and likely broadcloth) format, tie that could be pulled off casually due to width IMO, but isn't due to color... and then there's the waist down.

    [​IMG]

    I've got more pics, but I think the key here is to make sure all other pieces (sportcoat, shirt, tie, shoes) are in the more casual range, and the look can work perfectly. Textured coats with patch pockets, button down collars - sometimes in rougher fabrics, depending on season, either knits or (my preference) relatively matte woven ties (I use 2.5" grenadines) in subdued colors, and loafers, suede, brogues, etc.

    It's basically the same way to rock a tie and coat with jeans, guidelines wise. Except it looks much more natural to me - jeans are just a step too far.
     
  9. YRR92

    YRR92 Senior member

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    #1 has an awful collar. Sure, a BD collar is better, but that's a bad BD collar.
    #2 needs to wear some socks with those shoes.
    #3 is wearing jeggings.

    We agree on #4 and #5, kinda, but 'cept the monkstraps are too big for his trousers, and make his feet look bit.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Andrew Ryan

    Andrew Ryan Senior member

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    Yeah I definitely prefer a BD collar soft and with some roll. I agree about the socks. Most of these chinos are too tight for my preference. And I only wear loafers with chinos cause I think ANY other shoe makes my feet look too big / disproportionate, so I definitely agree about the monks.

    Was just trying to revive the thread and cover some basic principles (IMO).

    It's an underutilized look.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
  11. YRR92

    YRR92 Senior member

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    Nah, I dig.

    I've worn it probably most of the time this summer. I find I like my chinos narrow, but I think there's a compromise width I like -- basically, for my feet, as slim as I like with oxfords (covering a little between half and a third of the shoe) ends up covering about 1/3 of the loafer, which is the balance I like to strike. But I'm already very slim, and I don't wear my jackets very fitted.

    Of course, yesterday I wore very skinny chinos that were barely wider than my ankle, but I also wore a jacket with a cleaner-than-usual chest.
     
  12. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    I often wear jacket and tie with well-cut slim but not tight chinos - I really like PRL's custom ft chinos - in early summer. I find they are too heavy for mid-summer. But I do like my chinos creased. Not denim, obviously, but chinos, yes.
     
  13. Andrew Ryan

    Andrew Ryan Senior member

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    ^ Creased chinos? [​IMG] To each their own, but if you're going to crease why not just wear cotton trousers...? Seems to defeat the effect.
     
  14. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    What 'effect'? I think that is quite a range of really quite different trousers here, when we talk about 'chinos' (or khakis, or indeed, cotton trousers). The PRL custom fit chinos - if you've seen them - are a world away from say, Dockers, which would look pretty dorky if you creased them. In fact, I wouldn't have called the PRL trousers, 'chinos' unless the manufacturer did themselves. I wouldn't press my Engineered Garments cinch chinos - but then those are very different in fabric, finish and cut, a whole different kind of trouser, you might say.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  15. Andrew Ryan

    Andrew Ryan Senior member

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    By effect, I meant that the defining factor of a chino vs a cotton dress pant would be a lack of crease, IMO. Sure, that barely covers the difference, but it does define it well. The OP of this specifically points out this distinction as the kind of crux in discussing chinos with coat and tie. Effect being: a more laid-back, casual jacket and tie fit.

    I guess you were just chiming in about cotton pants in general. Not trying to be a dick about it, though, so, yeah, um.... right on, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  16. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    No I wasn't. And please don't speak to me or anyone else here like they are stupid. Most people on these forums know a lot more than you, and at the very least we can all learn something we don't know from others.

    There is a distinction amongst older folks between dressier chinos, worn with a jacket, tie and polished shoes, which are creased and sometimes also cuffed, in other words what you would call 'cotton trousers' and the more 'casual' chinos worn pressed flat or unpressed. However, recently the distinction, like so many things, has become blurred and hence the confusion here. You might want to look at some of the history of chinos or khakis and you'll see why they can be worn pressed (hint: military origins).
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  17. Andrew Ryan

    Andrew Ryan Senior member

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    Settle down bro, no offense was intended.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    Oh, I see. You're either very young or at least pretending to be.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  19. Andrew Ryan

    Andrew Ryan Senior member

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    My point was that you seemed to be missing the thrust of the discussion, as outlined in the OP. I perhaps could have said that differently without seeming to condescend, so...apologies?

    Anyone have anything to add re: how to properly pull off the "casual" chino with coat and tie, and the combination's merits, et cetera? Pics of successes and failures?
     
  20. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    No problem.
     

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