Chest Full-ness - Help

[Stylistix]

I'd like to have a bespoke suit made (not soft / natural shoulders, but slightly more structured) and want to have 'fuller' chests - not the 'sunken' chest seen in some suits (gap inside between the suit collar / lapel and shirt).

What do I need to instruct the Tailor to do? Thanks!

 

[pvrhye]

Some of these instructions sound contradictory to me.

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

What do I need to instruct the Tailor to do? Thanks!

You instruct him that you want a full chest. If he doesn't know what that means, then trying to get him to do it will only end in disaster.

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by pvrhye

Some of these instructions sound contradictory to me.

I thought 'structured' goes with 'fuller chests' and soft with drape?

And yes, if the tailor doesn't know what it is... it'll be a disaster

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum

You instruct him that you want a full chest. If he doesn't know what that means, then trying to get him to do it will only end in disaster.

How is it done actually? By putting in more 'lining'? I'm not sure if its the correct term...

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

How is it done actually? By putting in more 'lining'? I'm not sure if its the correct term...
There's a lot more to it than just the weight of the canvas, such as whether it's cut on the bias and the configuration of the darts in the canvas, and so on. Heavier interfacing tends to produce a more 'structured' coat but it's perfectly possible to create a full chest without particularly heavy interfacing (for example, check out JeffreyD's dissection of a coat by Huntsman, who are known for their structure). If your tailor does not know how to do this without instruction from you, then you should find another tailor otherwise the result will not be desirable.

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum

There's a lot more to it than just the weight of the canvas, such as whether it's cut on the bias and the configuration of the darts in the canvas, and so on. Heavier interfacing tends to produce a more 'structured' coat but it's perfectly possible to create a full chest without particularly heavy interfacing (for example, check out JeffreyD's dissection of a coat by Huntsman, who are known for their structure). If your tailor does not know how to do this without instruction from you, then you should find another tailor otherwise the result will not be desirable.
By 'darts', you mean stitching, right (as per the 'darts' on the back of men's shirts (for slimmer fit)? Where or how do I check 'JefferyD's dissection of a coat (website:http://www.tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/) ? I've been reading up lots on 'suits' on SF, and am trying to learn as much as possible, but obviously there's still much to learn... Reason for this thread is because I've seen suits on some guys here (where I'm from) and they seem ill-fitted in that there's a 'gap' between the suit (lapel area) with the chest / shirt inside - making it look as if wearer has a sunken chest...

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

By 'darts', you mean stitching, right (as per the 'darts' on the back of men's shirts (for slimmer fit)?

Where or how do I check 'JefferyD's dissection of a coat (website:http://www.tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/) ?

I've been reading up lots on 'suits' on SF, and am trying to learn as much as possible, but obviously there's still much to learn...

Reason for this thread is because I've seen suits on some guys here (where I'm from) and they seem ill-fitted in that there's a 'gap' between the suit (lapel area) with the chest / shirt inside - making it look as if wearer has a sunken chest...

This is just a gaping lapel. If you get a bespoke and you end up with gaping lapels there are major issues. I am sure always any bespoke tailor doesn't need to be instructed to do this as these are the reasons people go bespoke.

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH

This is just a gaping lapel. If you get a bespoke and you end up with gaping lapels there are major issues.

Yep, gaping lapels are a fit defect and have little to do with the fullness of the chest.

Originally Posted by Stylistix

By 'darts', you mean stitching, right (as per the 'darts' on the back of men's shirts (for slimmer fit)?

Where or how do I check 'JefferyD's dissection of a coat (website:http://www.tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/) ?

That is the correct URL; click on 'Huntsman' down the right hand side to see all the related posts, the two nearer the bottom are the ones relating to the dissection.

And yes, darts are places where a triangular wedge is taken out by stitching the edges together, and are used to create 3-dimensional form from a 2-dimensional piece of fabric. The darts in the canvas do not have to follow the same style rules as those on the external fabric since they are concealed, and as such there are countless different ways of doing them. There is an extensive thread on the subject on the Tailor & Cutter Forum here.

 

[greger]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

I'd like to have a bespoke suit made (not soft / natural shoulders, but slightly more structured) and want to have 'fuller' chests - not the 'sunken' chest seen in some suits (gap inside between the suit collar / lapel and shirt).

What do I need to instruct the Tailor to do? Thanks!

That is a fitting problem.

Full chest, drape, swell chest is different than a fitting problem.

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH

This is just a gaping lapel. If you get a bespoke and you end up with gaping lapels there are major issues. I am sure always any bespoke tailor doesn't need to be instructed to do this as these are the reasons people go bespoke.

Thank you very much for pointing that out patrickBOOTH.



A 'full chest' would mean the tailor would insert the 'layers' across the whole chest, extending into the sleevehead (or just sleeve? dont quite remember...).

To make 'full chests' work, would the shoulders also need more structure -ie slightly more pad than 'natural shoulders'?

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by greger

That is a fitting problem.

Full chest, drape, swell chest is different than a fitting problem.

Could you detail the differences between all three? (or tell me / point me where on the web)

I only know the 'drape' per drape cut from some of the threads here (and even then not so clear).
Full chest would be front suit canvassed till the sleeve'head'?
Swell chest - have no idea how thats achieved.

 

[greger]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

Could you detail the differences between all three? (or tell me / point me where on the web)

I only know the 'drape' per drape cut from some of the threads here (and even then not so clear).
Full chest would be front suit canvassed till the sleeve'head'?
Swell chest - have no idea how thats achieved.

gap inside between the suit collar / lapel and shirt This is all about improper fit. Don't see any pictures so it could be other problems too, but it sounds like flat shoulders and the coat is sitting on the ends of the shoulder lifting the collar and and roll line away from the body. Somebody who has steeper shoulders than the coats would have shoulders that collapse at the outer ends. Your problem might be helped by taking some padding out. If this is a custom made coat (bespoke) then the tailor didn't fit it right. The coat should fit from half shoulder to half shoulder and around the back neck and a little padding to keep the shoulder ends from collapsing, unless there are style reasons for different. The roll line gaping is another problem (fit and construction).

There is something different between a swell chest and a draped chest, and I don't really know what it is- perhaps more structure. Drape can also mean wanted folds. Unwanted folds would be an ill fit or different style.

I think of a full chest as more of a crooked cut, or it could be swelled.

There is full fit and then there is where styles takes away some of the fit. Even style needs to be fitted, which some tailors do a lousy job. For example, right shoulder has one drape and left has two drapes = the tailor doesn't care to do a good job of fitting. Sometimes, a new coat, a few months after wear, should have a tune up.

 

[Svenn]

^I thought a 'swell chest' was a robin-breasted appearance where there's a lot of canvas/padding in the chest area, and it's very fitted, to give the appearance of a strong chest. The mannequins of Huntsman, Attolini, Vacca etc seem to have that chest swell. I could be totally wrong.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

This thread is turning into a disaster. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "full chest" based on your description. I don't think any tailor would.

A draped chest has extra room in the chest in such a way that it produces subtle verticle folds on the sides by the front and back of the armscye. It produces more room for movement and gives the appearance of a larger chest. People sometimes interchange the draped chest and swelled chest. Ususally people say swelled chest when referring to Rubinacci and draped chest when referring to Anderson & Sheppard and the expats.

A clean chest, or as Manton calls it the "Continental" the chest will fit right on the body and is leaner, but gives you less movement.

A draped chest can have more structure in the shoulders (pading) with roped sleeveheads, or it can have minimal to zero padding and barely anything in the sleevehead, this has nothing to do with canvassing. Any good jacket will have the entire front canvassed. The sleevehead is something totally different.

There is also the chest piece to consider and how the canvas is cut. A draped chest might have less layers of haircloth in the chest to produce the folds at the armscye, a more structured jacket will have a chest that feels like a bulletproof vest.

It seems to me that you are confusing silhouette with structure, which does not always go hand in hand.

Why don't you post some pictures so we know what you mean.