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Charles Tyrwhitt Policy Change - No Value Added Tax Refunds!!!!

Deep Classic

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I recently received my latest order from Charles Tyrwhitt and I noted that the Value Added Tax (VAT) had not been deducted. I contacted CT and they responded that they had recently changed their policy to NOT refund VAT to users outside the EU (please see paragraph 6.4.2 of their terms and conditions on their website). Here is the reply I received from them: "Thank you for your email. I am very sorry to hear that you feel this way and that you wish to discontinue your relationship with us. I would like to stress again that it is not that we are now charging VAT to our non-EU customers, but that the prices have altered to be inline with our EU based customers. Customers from outside the EU will now pay the same prices advertised online and in the catalogue, but these are VAT exclusive for the non-EU customers to ensure that everyone pays the same price. Nevertheless I have passed your comments on to the relevant departments and have also removed your details from our mailing list. As we order catalogues in advance, you may receive one more, but this will be the last. I do hope you will reconsider and if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me. Best regards Victoria Forrester Customer Services" Think about this response - CT is charging non-EU customers the same prices they are charging EU customers, which includes 20% VAT - and pocketing the difference under the guise of fairness! I have alerted Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs that CT's advertised prices do not include VAT as they are required by law. Here's what is says at HMRC's website: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/consumers/basics.htm "Prices in advertisements, catalogues and price lists Products advertised in outlets, magazines, on the internet, or shown in catalogues, price lists and other literature may be aimed at the consumer, businesses, or both. If they're only meant for the general public, they'll show you a price including VAT. This is a legal requirement." I am very distressed about this development as I have been a loyal CT shopper for over 5 years and have recommended their products to many, many friends. If CT reverts to their prior, long-standing business practice, I will be a return customer. I thought Style Forum's members should be aware of this ASAP! Complaints from loyal customers could help CT see the light and revert to proper business practices.
 

HarleyBob

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I was going to purchase some shirts from Ct this week and I sent an email asking the same question regarding VAT. I wanted to pay in British Pounds and have the goods shipped to the US. They gave me the same response. I didn't purchase anything from them as a result. I sent them a similar email saying that their margin on goods shipped out of the EU was 20% higher than their margin on goods shipped within the EU. How fair is that to non-EU customers? You are correct, they are pocketing the 20% additional that is really VAT.

Obviously, they didn't respond. I will never purchase anything again from them.
 

HarleyBob

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I just filed a complaint with HM Revenue & Customs and sent the following email to CT. I would encourage others to do likewise. They really are committing fraud.

"I was placing an order with you to purchase your products. I emailed to find out whether VAT was going to be deducted from my order as I am not a EU citizen and my order was going to be shipped to the USA. I want to purchase in British Pounds. I was informed that VAT would not be deducted from your prices. In effect, what you are doing is stealing from Non-EU citizens. Under VAT laws, you are required, as a retailer, to disclose your prices, inclusive of VAT. Yet, when a non-EU purchases from you, you charge the VAT but do not remit it to the taxing authorities. This is fraud. I have filed a complaint with HM Revenue & Customs and have encouraged others to do so on several style fora. Also, please note that until your policy is changed, I will not be purchasing anything from you. Have a good day."
 

ter1413

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i await the response.....
lurker[1].gif
 

tgt465

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Originally Posted by HarleyBob
I just filed a complaint with HM Revenue & Customs and sent the following email to CT. I would encourage others to do likewise. They really are committing fraud.
While I agree with your concerns, what they are doing is not fraud. They are free to charge customers whatever they want, and they can charge different customers different amounts if they choose. If they decided to charge residents of non-EU countries double their normal prices, they are free to do so. If they decided customers with last names beginning with 'E' get another 50% added to their bill, they can do so too. Only if they claim that this markup constitutes VAT does it become fraud, and they have explicitly stated their non-EU markup is not VAT. CT is making a poor business and customer relations decision here, but you should not accuse them of breaking laws. This would in fact be libel.
 

bjornb17

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I just checked out their website. If you order in USD, nothing has changed. Are you just trying to get the slightly cheaper price on their UK website? Keep in mind that only American customers get free returns so you may be asking for too much by ordering from their UK website.
 

HarleyBob

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Originally Posted by tgt465
While I agree with your concerns, what they are doing is not fraud. They are free to charge customers whatever they want, and they can charge different customers different amounts if they choose. If they decided to charge residents of non-EU countries double their normal prices, they are free to do so. If they decided customers with last names beginning with 'E' get another 50% added to their bill, they can do so too. Only if they claim that this markup constitutes VAT does it become fraud, and they have explicitly stated their non-EU markup is not VAT. CT is making a poor business and customer relations decision here, but you should not accuse them of breaking laws.
I agree with what you have said regarding their ability to charge whatever they want to whomever they want, however: they are required to advertise their prices inclusive of VAT. By law, as a non-EU citizen who is having goods shipped out of the EU, I am not subject to VAT. Therefore, what CT needs to do to be legal is to advertise that for Non-EU customers, the prices listed are the retail price and they do NOT include VAT. They are not doing that, therefore, they are committing tax fraud. As their advertised prices currently exist, whatever I purchase will include VAT and it should be either deducted from my purchase price or remitted to HM Revenue whereby I can then request a VAT refund. Their process is not allowing me this opportunity. Thus, they are committing tax fraud, not pricing fraud.
 

gladhands

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Originally Posted by HarleyBob
I agree with what you have said regarding their ability to charge whatever they want to whomever they want, however: they are required to advertise their prices inclusive of VAT. By law, as a non-EU citizen who is having goods shipped out of the EU, I am not subject to VAT. Therefore, what CT needs to do to be legal is to advertise that for Non-EU customers, the prices listed are the retail price and they do NOT include VAT. They are not doing that, therefore, they are committing tax fraud. As their advertised prices currently exist, whatever I purchase will include VAT and it should be either deducted from my purchase price or remitted to HM Revenue whereby I can then request a VAT refund. Their process is not allowing me this opportunity.

Thus, they are committing tax fraud, not pricing fraud.


They have a process, you're just choosing to circumvent it.
 

bjornb17

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And adding to my previous reply, keep in mind that CT is one of the few big brands that hasn't jacked up their pricing due to the increased cost of cotton. So, order from the US website and everything will be the same as before!
 

ter1413

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Originally Posted by HarleyBob
I was going to purchase some shirts from Ct this week and I sent an email asking the same question regarding VAT. I wanted to pay in British Pounds and have the goods shipped to the US. They gave me the same response. I didn't purchase anything from them as a result. I sent them a similar email saying that their margin on goods shipped out of the EU was 20% higher than their margin on goods shipped within the EU. How fair is that to non-EU customers? You are correct, they are pocketing the 20% additional that is really VAT.

Obviously, they didn't respond. I will never purchase anything again from them.


if shipping to the US, why not order from the US??
 

HarleyBob

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Originally Posted by ter1413
if shipping to the US, why not order from the US??

The EU prices on the Uk site, net of VAT and converted to US dollars are always cheaper than their prices in US dollars on the US site. This company regularly charges a higher price if you purchase in US$'s. Why is that? It is because, like tgt465 said, they are choosing to make a higher margin on non-EU customers than they are on EU customers. For example, look at one of their basic shirts: sky with navy and white stripes #st162sky.

The UK site lists the shirt for 19.95bp whereas the exact same shirt lists on the us site for $39.

Now the UK price includes 3.33bp VAT (19.95/1.2-19.95.) So, a EU citizen is paying 16.62bp for the shirt and 3.33bp for VAT, which totals 19.95bp.

For the exact same shirt, the EU customer pays $27.17 (16.62bp x 1.63 - the current exchange rate.) Whereas the non-EU customer is paying $39. That is a 30% higher margin that CT has on the shirt when it is sold to a non-EU customer. How does that make you non-EU guys feel? In essence, what they are doing is collecting the VAT on non-EU customers and then not remitting it to the taxing authority. AS tgt465 implied, they can sell to those with the last name beginning with an "H" for $50 and those with the last name beginning with an "S" for $25. He is absolutely correct, but if my last name starts with an "H" you damn well better believe that I wouldn't be buying from them!

Now of course, the EU customer also has to pay the VAT, however in the US, we must pay customs and we are to file and pay use taxes on all purchases outside of our state. (Obviously, some of us do this and some of us don't.) Their VAT is somewhat the equivalent of our sales tax/property tax, etc.

I have just shown with one simple CT item that what they are doing is not fair. But then, life isn't fair. They can do this if they want, but I think it is important for all non-EU customers to understand what they are doing and the price differences between the two. I also believe that the way their are advertising on the UK site is fraudulent.

Obviously, the amounts we are talking about aren't necessarily a big deal, it is the principle of the thing that bothers me. I have purchased from them in the past off the UK site and have had VAT taxes deducted. I will no longer purchase from CT. You can do what you want.
 

edmorel

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Originally Posted by HarleyBob
I just filed a complaint with HM Revenue & Customs and sent the following email to CT. I would encourage others to do likewise. They really are committing fraud. "I was placing an order with you to purchase your products. I emailed to find out whether VAT was going to be deducted from my order as I am not a EU citizen and my order was going to be shipped to the USA. I want to purchase in British Pounds. I was informed that VAT would not be deducted from your prices. In effect, what you are doing is stealing from Non-EU citizens. Under VAT laws, you are required, as a retailer, to disclose your prices, inclusive of VAT. Yet, when a non-EU purchases from you, you charge the VAT but do not remit it to the taxing authorities. This is fraud. I have filed a complaint with HM Revenue & Customs and have encouraged others to do so on several style fora. Also, please note that until your policy is changed, I will not be purchasing anything from you. Have a good day."
Is there a reason why you would end an email like this with " Have a good day" ? I mean, you are telling them that you are reporting them to the authorities for tax evasion/fraud, will not be buying from them again and have instructed others to do the same. You think they are going through your email, blood beginning to boil and then they get to the end and say "I was ready to pound the piss out of this one but then I read the have a good day and I realized that he's a good, proper bloke. Do as he wishes", "Ay governor".
 

rebel222

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Couldn't they play the same principle argument with you shopping on their UK site for the sole purpose of getting the clothes cheaper? Some good cost more in other countries. They just do, and it's not a currency issue. More competition in certain markets is one reason.

I don't believe that you pay the full import duty amount all the time. Have you ever called the customs office and complained that they undercharged you? Also, I don't believe for one second that you file a use tax form on the items you purchase CT. So essentially, you are complaining about someone committing tax fraud, and I can say with 90% certainty that you commit tax fraud by not paying proper duties or failing to file use taxes properly. If you file all the proper taxes and notify the gov't when they forget to charge you duties, then I will recant this statement. However, I would like you to post this information publicly, so all of styleforum can call you a liar.

I understand your complaint, but your rant has a sense of entitlement in it that just turns me off from giving a **** about your issue.

Have a good day.
 

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