Charles Tyrwhitt Policy Change - No Value Added Tax Refunds!!!!

[Deep Classic]

Originally Posted by bjornb17

Yeah, this is the biggest non-issue ever. Looking at it in black and white terms:

1) They have a US website where VAT tax is not an issue.
2) They USD prices are a littler higher than the GBP price, but they offer free return shipping to US customers. In fact, they've been generous enough to give me free shipping on all my orders anyway, just for asking them. I can't imagine it being cheap to ship across the ocean!
3) Even at their USD prices, you still can't find a better shirt for less money here in the US. I think including sales, free shipping, etc, I've probably paid on average about $45 for a CT shirt which has exact sizing, some nicer features (i.e. split yoke, choice of french or button cuff), and many good designs. That buys you an ill-fitting, garish poly-blend shirt at Kohls here in the US!

Let's take the standard four shirt offer:

On the U.S. site it costs $200 and might include free shipping.

On the UK site, the same offer costs 100 pounds. At the exchange rate of $1.63 per pound, this equals $163. Less 20% VAT, the total is about $130. Even with shipping at 13.95 pounds, you are still about $50 cheaper on a $200 order! This is not pocket change in my world.

In over 5 years of orders, I have never needed to return a single item and I definitely vouch for their goods. Its their business practices that I have a problem with.

Oh well, for you U.S. site users, you know what they say about a fool and his money.

 

[linsook]

non-issue. you should be happy as many other goods, i'm talking about the same products, are more expensive in the EU than it is in the US. CT UK should just stop shipping to non-EU residents. issue solved.

 

[stylenooob]

Folks need to settle down. There is zero chance the UK tax authorities are going to investigate this. Just order from the US site.

 

[Gibonius]

Originally Posted by linsook

non-issue. you should be happy as many other goods, i'm talking about the same products, are more expensive in the EU than it is in the US. CT UK should just stop shipping to non-EU residents. issue solved.

It is an issue, because the only real appeal to CT is the cost/quality ratio. That ratio has been changed, so other options become preferable for many people.

 

[alexei]

CT can charge more for overseas buyers, that's their prerogative; but CT should come out and say that's what they are doing. They keep saying they are charging everyone equally, but they're not. They're charging UK residents X and they're charging overseas residents X + 20% (VAT EQUIVALENT).

Regardless of whether you contact HMRC or not, be sure you contact CT and let them know of your dissatisfaction. You can use their website to send a comment. http://www.ctshirts.co.uk/rightNow.a...nduser/ask.php

 

[Nicola]

Originally Posted by alexei

They're charging UK residents X and their charging overseas residents X + 20% (VAT EQUIVALENT).

How do you know this? Unless they're filing all the paperwork etc they are paying VAT .

Truth is in the past they were doing all the paperwork etc on the back of the EU customers.

 

[superego]

Is the VAT different than the 'international transaction fee' I was charged ordering through the US site?

 

[Achilles_]

Looks like TM Lewin will be getting more business soon

 

[alexei]

Originally Posted by Nicola

How do you know this? Unless they're filing all the paperwork etc they are paying VAT .

Truth is in the past they were doing all the paperwork etc on the back of the EU customers.

I'm referring to the actual price per item before any taxes, shipping, etc. being more expensive. The prices you see listed on the website include 20% VAT for UK residents (i.e. the price listed is X+VAT). Overseas buyers are charged the exact same total price, meaning for the same item - since we do not pay VAT - we are paying X+20%.

 

[Nicola]

Originally Posted by alexei

I'm referring to the actual price per item before any taxes, shipping, etc. being more expensive. The prices you see listed on the website include 20% VAT for UK residents (i.e. the price listed is X+VAT). Overseas buyers are charged the exact same total price, meaning for the same item - since we do not pay VAT - we are paying X+20%.


Unless they file export paperwork they need to remit the VAT. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's no different then walking into a brick and mortar store. The store will charge you VAT. The fact you aren't EU doesn't matter. The store if audited will be told

You sold £X of goods.

Your normal mark up is Y%

So you should have had revenue of £Z.

The tax man will want the VAT on Z.

So the shop either needs to go to the hassle of dealing with all the export paperwork etc which costs something for them to handle. Or they can charge you the exact same they charge everybody else.

 

[Nicola]

BTW VAT rates vary within the EU. In theory they should be charging the different rates for each country if they have a large enough client base.

 

[Deep Classic]

You are spot on, Alexei. We should be very happy this debate is occurring since it is a direct result of the ability to shop for goods online. CT obviously wants to charge different prices for different consumers in different locations, but they choose to do so in an unscrupulous manner. This is because the ability to shop on the web forces merchants to expose their true prices and creates a fairer shopping climate for all.

However, this requires watchdogs to guard against merchants who engage in unfair practices. Like a number of posters in this thread, you can choose to be a sheep and knuckle under to unfair practices or worse, remain silent. I, however, will not shrink from fighting for a fairer shooping environment for all.

The CT complaint and HMRC links are contained in the thread above. Everyone will have to make their choice to be either a sheep or a lion.

 

[Loathing]

How is that a fairer shopping environment?
US customers pay 20% less than UK customers, buying goods from a British company?
So, not only do you get half prices on RL and BB compared to UK customers, but you also get reduced prices on UK produce?

Sheep or lion? More like 'normal, honest person' or 'greedy, self-righteous *****'.

 

[Deep Classic]

Originally Posted by Loathing

How is that a fairer shopping environment?
US customers pay 20% less than UK customers, buying goods from a British company?
So, not only do you get half prices on RL and BB compared to UK customers, but you also get reduced prices on UK produce?

Sheep or lion? More like 'normal, honest person' or 'greedy, self-righteous *****'.

People need to think long and hard about whether or not to approve this business practice. CT is a major player in this space and, believe me, their every move is closely monitored by competitors.

As all likely know, our U.S. state sales taxes have risen substantially in the face of looming budget deficits. If CT's practice stands, I could easily see U.S. merchants charging non-U.S. buyers the state sales tax difference and claiming that it is done out of "fairness." Of course, the taxes don't go to the taxpayers, but to the merchant. All buyers who shop online have a stake in this.

Why anyone would give a "gold star" to such a practice is beyond me. I guess that P.T. Barnum was right!

 

[gladhands]

I suspect this may be a troll thread. It's hard to believe that anyone could feel so entitled to sneak his way into a deal.

Company execs sit around and decide which price-point they want to occupy. They decide that selling $50 shirts most profitable for them, because that is the market segment with the highest demand. They do business in a region where VAT must be included in the advertised price, so they set the actual price at 20% below the actual intended price. Things go well. Eventually, they notice that growing segment of their customer base is coming from a country not subject to that tax, effectively placing their product at a lower price-point for those customers, diminishing the value of the brand.

Company creates a portal for residents of that country to purchase the shirts at the intended price-point, without unduly taxing them. Customer still insists on purchasing from a portal designed for the laws of the other continent, even though he is not subject to those laws. Plain and simple: if you live in the States, ctshirts.co.uk is not for you. They can and probably will solve this by routing all US ip addresses to the US site, and refusing to ship to the US from the UK site.