Cavalry twill vs. moleskin vs. flannel?

[FlyingHorker]

I just ordered three pairs of flannel trousers from my tailor to add on to the 7 year old BB flannels I still have in rotation.
That’s actually pretty impressive to me that they still hold up.

Anyway 7 or 8 years ago I was out of college stretching my budget to buy BB. Scared of pleats and cuffs. Pitti showed every guy in tight jackets and Capri trousers. Everyone said “that’s not timeless”. They were right, but it still drew me in.

That being said, the BBs are classic in tailoring, not 2011 styled, just flat front well fitted trousers. However the new flannels I’m getting are more bold. Light gray and charcoal VBC with singe forward facing pleats, large waistband, cuffs. Tan lightweight flannel with single reverse pleat and no cuffs, large waistband as well.

It’s interesting how much has changed with #menswear Pitti looks despite not really “feeling” different. It doesn’t look like people have to be talked out of too-tight these days, overcompensating from a fear of emulating the worst dressed of the 90s look. Since my BB flannels still hold up I know that my new ones are for fun and less timeless, but I’m fine with that.

One thing I wonder is, when do decade barriers become apparent? I’m 30 and the #menswear look has evolved for the last 10 years but it still doesn’t feel radically different, just bouncing around fit-wise. The aesthetic still seems to be the same on a coarse level. Is this just how it always is or has the age of the Internet changed style from being abruptly rewritten on a seasonal basis by designers? I don’t feel like #menswear 2011 looks like anything other than a tighter, shorter version of 2019, but 2003 red carpet jet set elite style looks just completely unrecognizable from today.

I would think the bolded.

And pleats. OP is younger than I, so he has no cringe-inducing memories of pleated Gap khakis in the late 90’s. What a complement they were to my electric-blue dress shirt. And what a deterrent they are to my ever wearing pleated trousers again.

Yep, sure don't. I remember hating polo shirts and corduroy though as an adult, but now those have been released from negative connotations.

Are you in Toronto? Would you care to refer me to your tailor? I would be quite happy with those prices if the work is good.

I'm in Regina unfortunately. If you still need the referral, I can PM you.

 

[TAFJIR]

Also, my bias: don't get pants with wide waistbands, big double pleats, Ghurka closures, 9" leg openings, or anything #sartorial. If you get something basic, flat front, middle of the road, and genuinely classic, but also reasonably modern, you can wear them for years and years. Maybe, in 5 years, you'll find that you like that old school Apparel Arts look. At that point, you can still wear your grey flannel trousers. If, in five years, you find that you want to wear Engineered Garments because that super #sarotrial look doesn't suit your lifestyle or neighborhood, you can still wear your flannel trousers.

The upside to that very basic wardrobe is that it allows you to naturally develop your taste in any number of directions. If you jump into the deep end with all this #sartorial stuff, you may find you have a very expensive wardrobe in five years that doesn't even suit your taste.

Sage advice. I wish I had followed this years ago because I’m now in that boat and have a bunch of tailored clothing I never wear because it was too sartorial.

 

[mossrockss]

IMO, @mossrockss is a good example for younger guys who are trying to build a classic wardrobe. His clothes are pretty middle of the road. They're also not that expensive (by StyleForum standards). I believe almost all of it is ready to wear. He also shops a lot on sale, so he paid even less than retail. But he looks great. The clothes are classic enough to be wearable in five to ten years. But they also look at home in his setting.

We can bicker about small things like the angle of his quarters or whatever but almost none of that stuff is noticeable in real life. If you're sitting down at a bar and drinking beer with friends, chatting about whatever, you'll never notice these small things people nitpick online.







Moss' style doesn't have to be some endpoint and I'm not saying every guy should dress this way. I'm just saying that, if you don't even have grey flannel trousers and a navy sport coat yet, it's good to start with something like this before you go off on the deep end with wide waistbands, 10" trouser openings, and green double-breasted suits. This kind of wardrobe will be wearable for a very long time, even if you decide later that you don't even want to wear tailored clothing.

thanks Derek.

these clothes BETTER be wearable for a long time!!!!

 

[Sam H]

I got my trousers the other day. These are reverse pleats, I also have two others in charcoal and light gray VBC flannel with single forward pleats. I'm extremely happy with the way these turned out. It's exactly what I was hoping for with the waistband. These tan ones are a flannel that is like a napped twill whereas the VBC are more mottled and woolen and "flannely".

I have "normal" flannel trousers from 7 or 8 years ago still in rotation ("normal" being flat front, normal waistband, no cuff, aka the goto styling of 2012). So while I agree maybe these are too flamboyant to start with I'm not starting with them

I really love the cummerbund effect in waistbands like this.

Vahram told me hates the style but made them for me anyway Just for anyone wondering, the above is an example of trousers from Mr. Ned's where I get all my tailored clothing for the last few years even though I'm a longtime lurker/half poster on these boards and never post fits.

The shirt was from the laundry pile when I put it on so forgive the schlubbiness of it, I just wanted to see how it looked color-wise with a white shirt.

 

[9thsymph]

If you don't own mid-grey woolen trousers, I would suggest that (single pleat or flat...). I personally would do the cavalry twills on the super generic side, like j press or something...

 

[radicaldog]

What's hard to understand? I think your style looks like a sentient London Lounge thread. If someone wants to look that, that can be a great look if that's how they want to look. But a lot of guys pick up the look because they think it's timeless, and it's not. It's a very specific look. It's a bold look. It may not suit their lifestyle. They can look like they're walking around in a costume in modern society.

Most good looks are, in some way, a bit costumey -- the whole London Lounge thing, Rick Owens, Engineered Garments, Visvim, etc. Good stuff often stands out. But a lot of guys aren't jumping into this look because they have a strong point of view. They're leaning on this idea of timelessness -- which is distinct from classic -- because they don't have any real direction. So they see all these #sartorial things online thinking that this is how they can build a reliable wardrobe.

In five years or even today, that look will look like what it is: it's a very #sartorial look. Again, nothing wrong with it. There are many men I admire who wear that look well. But it's also distinct from a very middle of the road tailored look that will blend in a bit more easily with people's environments. And will give them flexibility if they decide, later, that they don't want to look like that. If you buy middle of the road clothes, somewhere between Apparel Arts and modern life, you can look reasonably good and rely on that wardrobe for many years to come. If, instead, you buy these 21oz tweeds and 10" trouser openings and do all this #sartorial stuff, you may find that you have a great wardrobe in 5 years -- or you may find you don't want, in fact, to look like that at all because it's so apart from other things.

There's a whole world between 9.75" leg openings and 6.5".

In the end, it's not even the trouser opening that matters that much. If you get a good tailor, they should be able to find what's best for you. But if you're fiddling with MTM stuff online, and pile on all these #sartorial things, I suspect you may be disappointed in five years. Versus, if you just go with the usual 7.75" to 8.5", which is what most people get in today's world, you may be happier in the end, especially if you're a younger guy who's just starting to build a better wardrobe.

Derek is exactly right. It's the difference between the London Lounge and Permanent Style looks. Both can be made to work, but the latter is much more likely to work for most people.

 

[Alan Bee]

@dieworkwear

Hmmm, London Lounge vs. Permanent Style??

Forward fitting for full cut trousers with 19.5” leg opening ?

Alan Bee

 

[dieworkwear]

last photo made me chuckle.

pants look nice on you though.

 

[Alan Bee]

last photo made me chuckle.

pants look nice on you though.

Thanks Derek. Do I spy a convert?? ?

Alan Bee

 

[dieworkwear]

Thanks Derek. Do I spy a convert?? ?

Alan Bee

I have some pants that are just as wide, if not wider. They're just not things I wear with tailoring. I have a pair of Tomorrowland Melton pants that are pretty wide, as well as Lemaire. But they're things I wear with casualwear.

My suit pants from Steed are kind of wide, I suppose. I don't know their measurements. I prefer slimmer trousers with sport coats.

 

[aj805]

Derek is exactly right. It's the difference between the London Lounge and Permanent Style looks. Both can be made to work, but the latter is much more likely to work for most people.

I think concepts like this are going out the window--that is, the importance of identifying norms in style. Only old people with archaic and baked-in sensibilities view things in this way anymore. What Derek says here is sober and sensible, but mainly for those middle-aged people who don't get the changes that are happening.

I drop my kids off at the high school and the place is a carnival of style, it is instagram come to life: a whole range of distinct aesthetics on display, from all-black "nuegoth", to bubble gum pink hair wearing high-waisted orange bags and turquoise high tops, to kids walking around in sport coats and ties.

These kids laugh at your pedantic fussing over leg opening measurements or the difference between covert and cavalry, and they will soon of course be the leaders. With each day the world is flushing out the remnants of staid conformity and embracing individuality.

If someone enjoys the Apparel Arts look and wants to attain their own vision of that, I say more power to them. Nothing wrong with being more honest and interesting than merely safe.

 

[dieworkwear]

If someone enjoys the Apparel Arts look and wants to attain their own vision of that, I say more power to them. Nothing wrong with being more honest and interesting than merely safe.

100% agree. My only point is that, if you're still developing your sense of style, it's better to slowly creep into a bold look over a period of years, rather than go whole hog into something you may regret later because clothes, especially this specific style, are very expensive.

 

[Alan Bee]

@dieworkwear

Admit it Derek, you’re a convert ?





Alan Bee

 

[dieworkwear]

this is how roger stone eventually got arrested

 

[FlyingHorker]

@dieworkwear

Admit it Derek, you’re a convert ?





Alan Bee

thanks for posting this alan, shows the drape in action. it looks great on you!