Casual the true mark of well-dressed?

[Get Smart]

After reading Soph's comment on Flusser being "it's hard for him to look good in clothing unless he's in a custom suit" and a similar discussion I was having with some mod fellas on suiting up or not.....

Isn't one's casual attire a true reflection of how well dressed someone is, rather than when suited up in a shirt/tie/dress shoe? After all, despite the nitpicking that goes on about suit fit, a fella wearing a $100 suit from Target with an appropriate tie/shoes is going to look good and definitely better than most others around him. But it seems smart casual is a tougher one for fellas to pull off, esp since this is where your own 'personal style' takes the stage since the clothing options are infinite...

thoughts?

 

[epa]

Good question.
However, I think that when you work in a not-too-conservative environment, there are a lot of suit and odd jacket combinations that can be quite interesting and show a lot of personal preferences, and not only capacity to keep up with the rules. On the other hand, with casual clothes, you really have a lot of possibilities to show good taste, as well as extraordinary bad taste.

 

[mack11211]

Yes to above.

Business dress has more, and stronger, rules. So it's harder to make mistakes.

Casual dress offers much more freedom and therefore more risk. Styles change faster, and the idea of acceptable casual dress changes faster as well.

 

[Will]

Originally Posted by Get Smart

After all, despite the nitpicking that goes on about suit fit, a fella wearing a $100 suit from Target with an appropriate tie/shoes is going to look good and definitely better than most others around him.

I don't accept the assumption. IMHO a fellow wearing chinos and a polo with polished penny loafers will look better than a guy wearing a $100 suit. Or we'd all be wearing $100 suits.

 

[HalfCanvas]

I'd say "sort of." First, it depends on what you mean by "casual." If you mean some combination of trousers, leather shoes, shirt, sweater (optional), sport coat and perhaps tie, and perhaps some type of outwear -- almost like what you'd see in the Bergdorf windows or, if you prefer, the Paul Stuart catalog -- then I agree this is where true "style" can really shine through. But if you are talking about jeans and trainers casual, then I think you have the same thing as with the suit situation -- you are just nitpicking about the quality of the denim and the fit.

Second, I think there is substantial difference in how people wear suits. It can't simply be whether your suit has double vents. It's the fit and what it says, the fabric pattern, the pattern and collar on the shirt, the shoes, the socks, and the tie (pattern, color, knot). There's a substantial difference between (1) wearing a slightly ill-fitting charcoal Kenneth Cole suit, a french blue point collar Perry Ellis shirt, and cheap tie, and some square toe loafers or lace-ups, and (2) wearing a well-fitting charcoal Isaia with a beautifully patterned shirt, a classic cashmere or silk tie with a nice knot, and some brown Edward Green lace-ups. Sure, a lot of the difference can be chalked up to the cost of the goods, but a lot of it has to do with style too -- pattern and color matching, choice of shoe shape, and the like.

Third, the big problem, I see, is that there is something "wrong" with the "Bergdorf Window" type of casual in most people's eyes. If everyone is in a suit, I don't think anybody bats an eye if one guy really does it well. But if "casual" is the dress code, the guy who's got the Bergdorf Window thing going on is going to stick out like a sore thumb when the rest of the guys are wearing khakis and Kenneth Cole shirts. Take me today for instance -- I'm wearing some mid-brown cavalry twill wool pants, a custom-made pink spread collar shirt, brown polka dot Pantherella socks, and burnt pine EG Chelseas. I also threw on a navy with very subtle gray windows flannel sportcoat. My preference would have been to throw on my oxford grey cashmere Nicky tie. I think it would have pulled together everything perfectly and elevated the entire look. Indeed, without the tie, I wore the sportcoat more for an extra layer than for purely sartorial reasons. But with the tie, I would have looked "out of place" at my office: A tie sans suit indicates "dandy;" a tie is "appropriate" only with a suit, and a suit is only "appropriate" when you have "client meeting" or if you are near the top of the office hierarchy. So, I simply chose not to. So, my point is that there are weird social limitations on how many stylish men are allowed to express that style in "casual" clothes. Those same social limitations don't really apply once you move into the suit realm. But you are right that, in the suit realm, the differences in style will be slightly more subtle.

 

[skalogre]

This may sound ignorant on my part but what exactly would constitute a BG window-style combination of casualwear?

 

[chorse123]

http://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/...an-men_14.html http://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/...dman-1119.html

 

[HalfCanvas]

Check out the Paul Stuart catalog for the pictures of men not wearing suit but still wearing sportcoats, wool trousers, and the like. That's sort of what I'm referring to -- all sorts of combinations of color, texture, and patterns. The Bergdorf windows often have this type of look done on their window mannequins, and they do a great job with them.

 

[Get Smart]

I really like the Bergdorf/Paul Stuart dressy-casual look you're referring to, but I don't think most guys can put together an outfit like that with much success, leading back to my original assumption. And unfortunately by today's standards that would be considered dressed-up, much in the same way as a suit/tie.

For me, one of the ultimate examples of a great casual dresser was 60s/early 70s Steve McQueen. He tied together a classic ivy influence (which I think is a great foundation for smart casual) with his own touches.

 

[skalogre]

Oh ok, thanks Chorse123, I see it. Some of that is nice. Well, not the ones with the leaf and what appears to be small animals everywhere. But I have to agree with Jason as for being "too dressy". Here at least IMHO it is worse as anything not involving open toed footwear and khaki trousers/shiorts would be considered "dressing up"

Plus I just don't wear sportcoats. I like suits but feel far too self-conscious in sportcoats; that is a dealbreaker for me, if I don't feel like it is a natural thing for me to wear I just won't feel comfortable wearing it. I also don't like a lot of the Ivy League styles Jason and many other here like using as points of inspiration...

So what happens to us in warmer places where layering (something I love doing) is a rare luxury?

 

[Holdfast]

I'm going to go with the "yes and no" answer.

Suits are relatively easy to look good in, esp. once you find a maker/cut that makes you look good! Sportcoat and trousers requires a bit more thought. In many ways, I've found jacket and jeans even tougher. But completely casual, I don't think is a particularly good marker of personal style. Dressy casual, probably yes.

 

[csgrad]

Holtfast, I think your hat + 3/4 coat with jeans in the what are you wearing now thread is a good example of "casual dressy." Since I'm an engineer, I don't have a dress code for work but I usually adopt a "dressy casual" look, jacket + shirt/sweater + jeans + dress shoes.

On the subject on hand, I agree that "dressy casual" is a good example of personal style, as it allows much more freedom in expression, and thereby is alot harder to pull off correctly. I point to the satorialist blog to many what I consider smart casual looks. In fashion, most of what Etro and Paul Smith does falls into this category.

 

[cheapmutha]

"dressy casual" and "a suit" are 2 things ive yet to do. one day...

 

[Parker]

Slightly off-topic: I think there's another element to consider here and that is "how" one wears his clothing. Some guys just seem to look stylish no matter what they're wearing. Could be the way they hang their (Samurai or thiftshop 501s) jeans from the hip just so or dimple their (Charvet or JPress) tie with just the right depth. It could even be a good haircut, posture, attitude, etc. I just think there is some personal dash that truly stylish dudes bring to the table that can make or break dressy or casual ensembles - no matter the quality, cost level of the specific items.

Still, I think smart casual is probably harder to pull off for most guys. There are just so many more choices (and places to go astray). On the other hand, there are some dudes I know who rock the hipster gear with panache, but when it's time for a dressy occasion just blow it with some ill-fitting, suit of armor two-piecer.

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by Will

I don't accept the assumption. IMHO a fellow wearing chinos and a polo with polished penny loafers will look better than a guy wearing a $100 suit. Or we'd all be wearing $100 suits.

Oh really? I bet if someone posted a picture of a Target suit that was well tailored and fit nicely in WAYWN, and called it a Brioni or Kiton suit, he'd get all sorts of props on how nice the fit and how elegant the drape was.

Don't waste your money, because it's a sucker bet. I've already done it (and no one blinked an eye)