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Cashmere Sweater Hierarchy

Bespoke DJP

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-WO : virgin wool (not recycled)
-WP: alpaca
-WS: cashmere (not recycled)
-WL : lama
-WSY: yangir cashmere ( or yangir 100%)
-WM : mohair
-WA : angora
-WV : fleece wool (not recycled)
-SE : silk
-LI : flax/linen (not recycled)
-HL : blend flex with cotton
-HA : hemp
-WU: guanaco
-WY: yack
-WK: camelhair
-WG: vicuna


Thank you very much!

Why do I believe that WV is for virgin wool (which makes sense if you see the letters of the acronym: Wool Virgin) and not fleece wool? Unless it's the same!


Best,

Dimitris
 
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Bespoke DJP

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Can confirm that it's the same on their Geelong Leven sweaters with turn-back cuffs.


Welcome to StyleForum!

I am perhaps the most recent "rookie" on William Lockie matters, though I am in a very steep learning curve right now; It is to my understanding, therefore, that Leven is a 100% Lambswool line, whereas the respective 100% Super Geelong one in V-neck sweaters, V-neck cardigans, waistcoats is Gordon.

Thank you very much for your input, when I will receive my Gordon, I will contribute as well.


Best,

Dimitris
 

BMC

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Welcome to StyleForum!

I am perhaps the most recent "rookie" on William Lockie matters, though I am in a very steep learning curve right now; It is to my understanding, therefore, that Leven is a 100% Lambswool line, whereas the respective 100% Super Geelong one in V-neck sweaters, V-neck cardigans, waistcoats is Gordon.

Thank you very much for your input, when I will receive my Gordon, I will contribute as well.


Best,

Dimitris

I don't know the difference between Geelong and Super Geelong. I will ask my local Lockie dealer if he knows. This website sheds some light on the matter. According to the label, my Levens are made of Geelong as well.
What's more confusing with Lockie is that in the neck label, it state's '100% Geelong Lambswool'. This makes you think it's not Virgin Lambswool. Or is Virgin Lambswool a tautology since lambswool is always virgin?

To make it more complex, in the hem label it states in English: 100% Geelong Lambswool, then in German: 100% Geelong Schurwolle. Schurwolle is German for virgin wool. Maybe a translation error? I don't really care anyway, just noticed. I always assumed all Lockies are virgin wool.
 
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msimon

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Welcome to StyleForum!

I am perhaps the most recent "rookie" on William Lockie matters, though I am in a very steep learning curve right now; It is to my understanding, therefore, that Leven is a 100% Lambswool line, whereas the respective 100% Super Geelong one in V-neck sweaters, V-neck cardigans, waistcoats is Gordon.

Thank you very much for your input, when I will receive my Gordon, I will contribute as well.


Best,

Dimitris
According to ahume and william lockie, lambswool sold by ahume under william lockie name is tagged geelong but advertised as lambswool to conserve quality. Super geelong will allways be the first cut.

Why don't they just advertise as geelong?.
 

Bespoke DJP

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I don't know the difference between Geelong and Super Geelong. I will ask my local Lockie dealer if he knows. This website sheds some light on the matter. What's more confusing with Lockie is that in the neck label, it state's '100% Geelong Lambswool'. This makes you think it's not Virgin Lambswool. Or is Virgin Lambswool a tautology since lambswool is always virgin?

To make it more complex, in the hem label it states in English: 100% Geelong Lambswool, then in German: 100% Geelong Schurwolle. Schurwolle is German for virgin wool. Maybe a translation error? I don't really care anyway, just noticed. I always assumed all my Lockie's are virgin wool.


No, I did not write that there is a difference between Geelong and Super Geelong, it's exactly the same. Some WL brand labels write Super Geelong, other just Geelong, but in both they are followed by the word Lambswool, because Geelong is Lambswool, yet a more refined one at 19.5μ approximately.

"Leven" line is using the so-called 100% New Lambswool which is not as refined as Super Geelong.

I hope it makes sense.


Best,

Dimitris
 

BMC

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I see. Their marketing is a mess then. For the record, I have two Leven sweaters made from Geelong according to the label. I've seen Leven sweaters on the internet with labels stating '100% new lambswool'. Very confusing.
 

Bespoke DJP

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I see. Their marketing is a mess then. For the record, I have two Leven sweaters made from Geelong according to the label. I've seen Leven sweaters on the internet with labels stating '100% new lambswool'. Very confusing.


One more thing if I may.

Should you visit A-Hume's site, you will discover that "Leven" V-neck / crewneck sweaters do not have turn-back cuffs, they have straight ones; it is the 100% Lambswool line "Rob" in the above-mentioned make-ups which has turn-back cuffs.

Most probably your sweaters are "Gordon" 100% Super Geelong Lambswool alright.


Best,

Dimitris
 

BMC

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That would make sense. Then they're both Gordon crew with turn back cuffs and saddle shoulders.
I thought they were Levens because of the saddle shoulders. It seems that any combination is possible at Lockie.
 
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Bespoke DJP

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That would make sense. Then they're both Gordon crew with turn back cuffs and saddle shoulders.
I thought they were Levens because of the saddle shoulders. It seems that any combination is possible at Lockie.


The matter is settled then!

They must be like the following one:

1669747048877.png



Best,

Dimitris
 

BMC

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Apparently, these sweaters are in Lockie's 'Dutch Fit'. Longer body, longer sleeves and less baggy in the chest. The colours are Savannah and Beige. Confusingly enough, I can only find those colours in their 'New Lambswool' line, not in their Geelong. Maybe the labels are wrong haha.

Screenshot_2022-11-29_18-46-56.png

Screenshot_2022-11-29_18-47-17.png
 

happydayz1

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Looking to get thoughts on Johnstons of Elgin cashmere? I’m currently looking at their ribbed roll necks. I have a JOE cashmere scarf, but I purchased this some time ago.

Im particularly interested to hear how they stack up against William Lockie and Colhays both of which I have experience with.

Thanks
 

HotDilf

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I would recommend WL over Johnston's of Elgin, whose jumpers are generally less tightly knit (more slack) than WL. See posts number 624 and 647 of this thread.
 

rbc

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Looking to get thoughts on Johnstons of Elgin cashmere? I’m currently looking at their ribbed roll necks. I have a JOE cashmere scarf, but I purchased this some time ago.

Im particularly interested to hear how they stack up against William Lockie and Colhays both of which I have experience with.

Thanks

I recently bought a new JoE round neck sweater (blue) and a vintage one (red) and have been wanting to write a comparison post on differences I've noticed between the two. This might also give more info on the quality of modern JoE, though I haven't felt WL or Colhays items.

To start, there is a noticeable difference in the hand and weight of the vintage sweater compared to new. Vintage is 29% heavier (73g), feels significantly plusher to the touch (both in terms of springiness/drape and softness), and has a generally less elastic feel in the cuffs and hem. It's hard to notice if one is more warm than the other, but the feeling of thickness from the vintage one is more present. Compared to a vintage Pringle of Scotland turtleneck I have, I'd say the old JoE is softer and thicker than either, with the Pringle being between the two. Of course, all still feel nice but there is a noticeable difference.

As far as pilling, it seems to me that the new one hasn't had a significant pilling problem and has generally held up pretty decently to frequent hand washing in the last 4 months. The vintage one does have more and larger pills, especially in wear areas in the underarms and sleeves. Of course both have some pilling, but I notice more on the vintage sweater.

Finally, the new JoE has a bit of a problem in the cuffs and hem that my other cashmere doesn't. It seems it gets stretched and wavy despite press and air drying, losing its shape a bit even when worn. This is the biggest disappointment, and a bit hard to understand because the new one feels more elastic and fitted than the others.

Excited to acquire more vintage Scottish cashmere makers to compare.
 

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