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Cashmere Sweater Hierarchy

TheShetlandSweater

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Flipping through William Lockie's Fall/Winter 2021 lookbook, every jumper looks elegant and stylish.

It's truly a shame that none of these styles ever get produced, so common folks have to resort to the Oxton 1-ply or the Chirnside 4-ply from third parties and call it a day.
I am not sure what lookbook you are looking at, but the pictures on their website are uninspiring at best and don't do their garments justice.

A lot of their different makeups do get made for stores you and I have never heard of. Stores in Japan. Stores without websites. I mean, even among stores with websites, I just found this sweater last week (not cashmere).

1642730292921.png


Paul Stuart is a perfect example. Thirty years ago, they had one or two sales per year. Now it's literally year-round because people are accustomed to getting deals, whether through comparison shopping or sales shopping.
I don't think they have the sales because of comparison shopping. Like, literally try to find any of their products elsewhere. 90+% of the time you won't be able to.

I think they have (1) determined that a sale model with high full price prices works best for them and (2) decided to make a lot of products, many of which are strange or different. With them, a lot of their online stuff also isn't in stores and a lot of their in-store stuff isn't online. Come to think of it, I'm not really sure what their business model is.

But yeah, people like deals. I'm not denying that. Finding deals or feeling like you are getting a good price is a different thing than comparison shopping, though.
 

ladislav.jancik

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Fransboone also has the Alain model albeit most sizes are sold out. I buy from him because the website is so good that for me its worth it. On top, his prices are very good if not the cheapest for most brands. Michael Jondral selection is very good but items do not include measurements and doesn’t offer small sizes so for me is a no go.
They have it but only in lambswool. And then so called Gullan Rollneck which is in cashmere, but 2 ply yarn knitted on machines for 4 ply yarn, i.e. loose knit which I don't like.
I fully agree with the rest.


I don't think Frans Boone has the cashmere turtlenecks in the high plys like Jondral does or did.

As far as product selection and curation, Jondral is probably the best of the stores that mainly sell 3rd party brands (as opposed to stores like Anglo-Italian that do a lot more of their own stuff and stores like the Armoury that do a mix). They also have the best sales, IMO. That being said, the lack of measurements is annoying (though some seasons they have posted measurements) and the customer service could be much more willing to help.
Missing sizing is really annoying. I have only good experience with customer service though. I always write email regarding sizing and always get answer within few hours with the advice or accurate measurements.
 

double00

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for the hierarchy :

last winter i made up this tuque .

IMGP6486.JPG
it started life as one of those classic Polo cable cash crewnecks . polo markets the yarn as italian spun .

i wear this anytime it's reasonably dry out during the colder season , it's seen a lot of use over the last 2 winters . i throw it in the washing machine , normal / warm setting typically it goes in with the rest of the laundry , in fact it just went through a wash cycle .

let's take a closer look at how the fiber , yarn , and fabric are doing :

IMGP6487.JPG IMGP6488.JPG
the typical slightly fuzzy halo has really developed into a nice cloudy nap and there is a bit of pilling on the main fabric , not too much at all on the ribbed hem . the cable pattern has flattened a bit and certainly less distinct than as-new but again the ribbing is holding up well .

takeaway for me is the fiber has held up really well . the yarn is getting a bit obliterated but it's already fabric so there's nowhere for it to go .

one last point :

IMGP6489.JPG
the original sweater was fully fashioned , meaning it gets knitted up *in pattern* . but the cap is strictly a cut n sew affair .

@breakaway01 would you figure i'd need to reinforce the cut edges ? i did not , i can rely on the fiber to self lock after a ride through the wash , and chop it up with no fear of raveling . that is also the reason i used a wool single to sew it .
 

breakaway01

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for the hierarchy :

last winter i made up this tuque .

it started life as one of those classic Polo cable cash crewnecks . polo markets the yarn as italian spun .

i wear this anytime it's reasonably dry out during the colder season , it's seen a lot of use over the last 2 winters . i throw it in the washing machine , normal / warm setting typically it goes in with the rest of the laundry , in fact it just went through a wash cycle .

let's take a closer look at how the fiber , yarn , and fabric are doing :

the typical slightly fuzzy halo has really developed into a nice cloudy nap and there is a bit of pilling on the main fabric , not too much at all on the ribbed hem . the cable pattern has flattened a bit and certainly less distinct than as-new but again the ribbing is holding up well .

takeaway for me is the fiber has held up really well . the yarn is getting a bit obliterated but it's already fabric so there's nowhere for it to go .

one last point :


the original sweater was fully fashioned , meaning it gets knitted up *in pattern* . but the cap is strictly a cut n sew affair .

@breakaway01 would you figure i'd need to reinforce the cut edges ? i did not , i can rely on the fiber to self lock after a ride through the wash , and chop it up with no fear of raveling . that is also the reason i used a wool single to sew it .
Very cool! I have no knowledge about how to make knitwear but I like how this turned out.

you used the word “tuque”, must mean you’re not from the US? (I grew up in Canada where it is usually “toque”).
 

Jnarcane

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Sorry to derail the topic again, but does anyone have any thoughts about camel hair vs. cashmere? Specifically, I'm looking for a beefy cardigan, and the camel hair options seem cheaper (but quality is unknown). Also, everyone sells cashmere whereas camel hair seems to be fairly difficult to find.
Amide Hadelin’s camelhair shawl-collar is currently discounted:


I don’t have experience with their knits, but I think their products generally look nice.
 
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double00

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Very cool! I have no knowledge about how to make knitwear but I like how this turned out.

you used the word “tuque”, must mean you’re not from the US? (I grew up in Canada where it is usually “toque”).
thanks

***

hm , memere came to america on a boat from france , pepere was a mainer of french-canadian descent - this is one side -but i guess it snuck through ? idk in any case I'm american west coaster down the line .

to me a beanie is a different thing but not trying to split hairs
 

bdavro23

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Camel feels more wiry than cashmere. I don’t personally consider warmth/weight ratios since there are so many other variables especially when one discusses cashmere. Camel’s its own thing; it’s great for a thick garment like a shawl collared cardigan or a cable knit sweater and is soft and springy, but has a wiriness that cashmere doesn’t. I believe it’s much cheaper than cashmere so there’s less trickery with it than with cashmere (re things like yarn tension, use of inferior quality fibres, etc), but that’s just my subjective experience.

re pilling on cashmere sweaters it’s never a good sign.It can happen on even greater quality sweaters especially after a lot of wear and stretching but shouldn’t happen that quickly as on those Johnstons. This just bolsters my anti Johnstons prejudice.
I read this last night and wanted to second your thoughts here about the wiry nature of the camel hair. You also make a very apt note about the suitability of the fiber for cardigan's/ heavier garments versus the sometimes delicate nature of cashmere garments.

I find alpaca is similar in nature to camel hair in those respects concerning wiry-ness as well as garment type, though it is often heavier than camel hair in my experience. I am thinking specifically about a very heavy alpaca cardigan that I have from a long time ago that is just wonderful, but a but wiry.

Anyway, thanks for your comments.
 

Cause Moe

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Custom MTO sweater from MaisonCashmere

I will have a long and tedious tale to tell in a week or two. Ordered in early September ...
I was looking for a sweater to wear over a collared shirt, and/or under a jacket. I know that my arms are shorter than OTR sizes, and alteration knitters are not readily available to me. So I looked for MTM. I found (probably from google) MaisonCashmere in Tuscany. They do MTA cashmeres sweaters, and thet allow for customization of the sleeve length (and garment length), with certain restrictions. That was close enough to MTM for me, so I decided to place an order.

Some brief emails back and forth ensued, and "Aurora" sent me the magic incantation to put in the "comments" field of my order. Specific dimensional information in Italian. The price is $150, including shipping to the USA. I ordered this sweater:

Men’s Pure Cashmere V-Neck Sweater, Light Grey, in a customized size.
Loro Piana - Yarn dept. (Italy)
Count: 2/28 Nm · 2-ply
Gauge: 12gg - Medium

Then I discovered this thread on SF, and someone asked about MaisonCashmere. I said I had ordered, and would reply when received. That was months ago.

As a first time customer, a 15% discount was applied, so it was $128. It seemed like a good price for a custom-sized sweater. The information on the website, and all subsequent emails, never mentioned any specific delivery date. Questions about specific timing were answered with descriptions of the production process. There's a date estimate on the order page, but I presumed that my MTM might take a bit longer.

I ordered on 2021-09-03. I received a confirmation email within 24 hours. About two weeks after the order, I received a "reassurance" email. I believe it was generated automatically, as it had no specifics of any kind; just reassuring me that my order was being processed. About 7 weeks after ordering, I sent an email inquiring about my order, and asking for a date when I could expect it. Instead of a date, I got a reply with some reasons (excuses?) for the delay, a description of the manufacturing process, and a 10% refund, followed by an email asking me to "... please bear with us a few more days." About 11 weeks later (18 weeks after ordering), I sent another email inquiry, once again asking for a delivery date. And once again, there was no date, or even an estimated date. Repeated details about their production and shipping sequence, but no date. Aurora offered a cancellation with a full refund. I replied that I still wanted the sweater, and this time, I gave the date. I said I would like the sweater if they could send me tracking info and evidence that the sweater had shipped, within 10 days; otherwise, cancel and refund. Aurora gave me another 10% refund.

Seven days later, I got the "shipped" message with a tracking number, which indicated a shipping label (but not shipment). The next day, it actually shipped. On the tenth day, 20 weeks after the order, the sweater was delivered to me. So they can do it in less than 2 weeks, but in my case, it was 20 weeks. For a sweater with sleeve-length customization, $150 seemed reasonable. For $97.50 (after a rebate and two partial refunds), an even better deal. But considering the delays, and lack of any date commitment at any point in the process, I can't recommend MaisonCashmere. If you're interested in constantly contacting them to expedite things, you might have better success. If you order a standard size, you might have better success, but I think everything is made-to-order.

The sweater appears to be well-made, and it fits quite well. Success on that front. I rarely wear sweaters, and this is my first cashmere, so I can't give an informed comparison. It's very thin and lightweight, which I expected, and it works well over a shirt and under a sport coat. It's really simple, nothing fancy, and if production and customer service were better, I'd consider another item from them. As it is, though, I'm still looking for other sources.
 

dieworkwear

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Will you give an example or two of this?
Bespoke tailors: Steed, Edward Sexton
Bespoke shoemakers: Nicholas Templeman, Emiko Matsuda, Daniel Wegan
Brands: Vanda Fine Clothing, Shibumi, Kent Wang, Chipp, EG Cappelli, Viberg
 

StockwellDay

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Bespoke tailors: Steed, Edward Sexton
Bespoke shoemakers: Nicholas Templeman, Emiko Matsuda, Daniel Wegan
Brands: Vanda Fine Clothing, Shibumi, Kent Wang, Chipp, EG Cappelli, Viberg
got it. Thank you.

Kent Wang getting recommended by The Wirecutter for his sunglasses, I’m guessing has opened him up to a broader audience, but your point doesn’t change.

I have wondered about Shibumi and some of the tie makers, given the precipitous decline in neckwear usage from the pandemic, and how they are faring.
 

Duke Santos

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I could use some advice. I'm looking for a basic black cashmere v-neck. Nothing too light (I have a great merino Dunhill for that) but I don't want heavy or I'd go full Shetland. Goldilocks weight is what I'd say. Preferably from the UK in the 300-450 range.

Any thoughts on either N. Peal and Alan Paine? I have two old (early 70s that I bought vintage and mid 80s that was a Christmas present my senior year in high school) Shetlands from the latter that are still going strong. Any reason to go a bit higher in price and with whom? I checked John Smedley and no pure cashmere and no black v-necks in their merino-cashmere blend.
 

Coldsnap

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Can anyone help me out with makers for these cashmere and shetlands? Let me know if you need more pics to make a call, thanks so much.

- Carrol & Co Shetland
- Bullok & Jones Birdseye Shetland
- The Andover Shop 100% Cashmere
- The Andover Shop 100% Wool Shetland

IMG_20220128_155710.jpg IMG_20220128_155826.jpg IMG_20220128_171435~2.jpg
 

bdavro23

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