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Cashmere Sweater Hierarchy

SartoriaModerna

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love the color, your first piece from Bompard ?

any notes on other french cashmere brands ? I'm only familiar with Allude, which I bought a couple of, maybe ten years ago, and they are holding up just as well as Cucinelli and JoE from that period

Yes, it's my first piece from them (and I actually think it would not be my last). I love the many cheerful color options they have, great way to add more colors in the wardrobe. I have yet to wear it for some time to see if they hold up well but I think they are good value at first glance, especially when on sales.

Other French brands known for its cashmere:
Hircus (value player),
Tricot (all their knits are a mix of new and old cashmere yarn, focus on sustainable cashmere that does not pill anymore),
Kujten (similar offering as Bompard and fairly new to the game but they are expanding fast last few years),
Fromfuture (cashmere designs for youngsters)

and of course, established brands such as Hermes and Chanel are popular in the French cashmere community as well.

We see E. Bompard and Kujten are probably the only small players in France that positions itself in the "high-end" segment and while Bompard is nice, it's clear that the dominance of Scottish/ Italian brands are not going away in near future
 
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double00

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IMO alpaca and camelhair are both very underrated and underpriced especially compared to modern cashmere.
underrated here no doubt , i'd guess in the markets where those animals abound they get due respect . it's awesome that alpaca has grown in popularity as a yard animal here in the us .

i love camelid fiber . you get a longer staple length and very comparable micron / feel and way more reliable to raise / source .

as a follow-up here's a bit of show-n-tell :

IMGP6653.JPG
i'd made this probably 10 or 12 years ago for my old lady , the yarn is either baby alpaca or royal baby cannot remember . a very fine fiber , very easy next to skin .

IMGP6655.JPG
let's see how it's held up with constant wear over the years . i've never had to trim pills but some flyaway has developed . she often wears this to bed on colder nights so you know it's comfy and i'll point out that sandwiched between hair and pillow it's been very durable i'd say ...

IMGP6657.JPG
just for funzies here's the wrong side .

alpaca is a great fiber . i recall this particular yarn was milled in peru and handknit by yours truly , fun to try out yarn-over lace .
 

Camerashy

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anyone able to help on the sizing of the Bottegiani crew neck sweater please.
Im usually a UK44 and interested in the pit to pit and total length measurements please
anyone in the UK bought from them and subject to custom/VAT charges
 

fabricateurialist

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anyone able to help on the sizing of the Bottegiani crew neck sweater please.
Im usually a UK44 and interested in the pit to pit and total length measurements please
anyone in the UK bought from them and subject to custom/VAT charges
Highly recommend reaching out to them directly via the chat box or email, they are quite responsive

I'm about to order something from there myself, and given the chats, they appear to run true to size
 

St1X

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I have no experience with Alpaca, but after reading this thread I decided to get myself a cardigan made from Alpaca. Thrifted one just to see how's it. It's a 100% baby alpaca and it sheds like a dog.
Is it expected from Alpaca?
 

SartoriaModerna

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I have no experience with Alpaca, but after reading this thread I decided to get myself a cardigan made from Alpaca. Thrifted one just to see how's it. It's a 100% baby alpaca and it sheds like a dog.
Is it expected from Alpaca?

I only own 1 alpaca sweater but for what it's worth: my sweater from local shop (Bellepaga) that I got gifted 2 years ago don't show heavy signs of pilling. I wore it maybe 10 times or so.

I also don't think heavy pilling is "normal" for baby alpaca in general, the fiber is meant to be more pilling resistant than cashmere as the fibers are usually longer. However, all is relative to usage so with heavy friction, pilling would eventually appear, maybe the previous owner used it frequently?

On another note, I'm very wary of buying alpaca products online as it's hard to judge the quality of alpaca knits without feeling it. For example: The difference between baby alpaca and alpaca is kinda vague as there is no industry standard to define the fibers. Most seem to use 18-20 microns for baby alpaca and 20+ for normal alpaca, but each brand can define these parameters themselves so it could be a normal alpaca sweater labelled as baby alpaca. Bellepaga uses the term baby alpaca for 18-22.. I can maybe distinguish both if I have enough experience with these knits, but that's not the case. There are also no established mills that produces these fibers as it's a relative niche and new fiber, which means it's opportunistic as it could get the same softness as cashmere, but you just don't know where or who gets the yarn etc.
All these specs hunting seems nerdy, but nowadays these alpaca knits are not cheap and actually almost as expensive as cashmere..
 

St1X

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I only own 1 alpaca sweater but for what it's worth: my sweater from local shop (Bellepaga) that I got gifted 2 years ago don't show heavy signs of pilling. I wore it maybe 10 times or so.

I also don't think heavy pilling is "normal" for baby alpaca in general, the fiber is meant to be more pilling resistant than cashmere as the fibers are usually longer. However, all is relative to usage so with heavy friction, pilling would eventually appear, maybe the previous owner used it frequently?

On another note, I'm very wary of buying alpaca products online as it's hard to judge the quality of alpaca knits without feeling it. For example: The difference between baby alpaca and alpaca is kinda vague as there is no industry standard to define the fibers. Most seem to use 18-20 microns for baby alpaca and 20+ for normal alpaca, but each brand can define these parameters themselves so it could be a normal alpaca sweater labelled as baby alpaca. Bellepaga uses the term baby alpaca for 18-22.. I can maybe distinguish both if I have enough experience with these knits, but that's not the case. There are also no established mills that produces these fibers as it's a relative niche and new fiber, which means it's opportunistic as it could get the same softness as cashmere, but you just don't know where or who gets the yarn etc.
All these specs hunting seems nerdy, but nowadays these alpaca knits are not cheap and actually almost as expensive as cashmere..
I am not talking about piling, but shedding - it looses a lot of fibers like a dog
 

Johnny80

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Of course it shouldnt...if you say its new and just bought.
Different houses has different yarns quality
The most are Alpaca with around 28-29µ while baby Alpaca uses around 22-23µ and here baby alpaca is just the name that defines the µ and not being necessarily came from young Alpacas, but from the first shearing of the animal.
First interaction with a particularly garment should come from great houses, because if you have a negative impact with your first alpaca you will be hard to pass that and try something else
BC is using their baby alpaca on 19µ point but it is also more consistent in the quality around the whole garment, for example their best is Baby “Royal” Alpaca that can have even 18µ a cashmere league
18 microns
I see a lot of unknown brands that uses alpaca that "sheds" and most of all the light comes very different in different places of the garment. Alpaca can be a 3d quality garment after top tier Vicuna, Cashmere Yangir, top tier cashmere and this Alpaca
 
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hysteria

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Thank you! I ordered another one in cream this morning, makes great wardrobe staples without breaking the bank.

Which size did you order? I normally wear small for most things, but I am wondering if this fits on the looser or tighter end of the spectrum and if I should size. up.

Also, curious to know if piling is to be expected for merino turtlenecks. I bought one from SM and it pills a fair about around the neck.
 

hysteria

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SartoriaModerna

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Which size did you order? I normally wear small for most things, but I am wondering if this fits on the looser or tighter end of the spectrum and if I should size. up.

Also, curious to know if piling is to be expected for merino turtlenecks. I bought one from SM and it pills a fair about around the neck.
I ordered a size S as well. Stretched out garment measurements by hand:

1/2 chest pit to pit: 54cm
Length from base of neck to bottom: 62 cm
Sleeves length: 62cm
Waist/hips at base: 44cm

Shoulder is a bit tricky, it depends on how you measure it, see picture:
Shoulder to shoulder (red line) : 44cm
Shoulder seams (black line) : 38 cm
(This is also how Cavour themselves measured and made many people anxious it might fit too small, but shoulder to shoulder (the usual way people do shoulder measurements) is normal sized.)

I'm 1.70m (5ft7 ish), 60kgs, normal build and it fits me really well. A more relaxed fit due to the slightly larger chest measurements than indicated but that's absolutely good thing imo.

IMG_9653 2.jpg

-----

Yes, all types of wool pill with friction and use. It's not a question about whether it pills but how much it pills. As for Merino in particular, it should not pill easily. Merino is known to be "pill-resistant" compared to other fibres. But again, though Merino is very commercialised, it's not really subject to hard industry parameters except that it comes from the Merino sheep. Transparency about which mill or what yarn quality is not standard. This is why there can be a discrepancy between Merino wool knits accross brands. Some pill or get holes more easily than expected. S&M knits are nice value proposition, but it's definitely on the budget side and it's not as durable as some knit focused brands mentioned in this thread.
 

hysteria

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I ordered a size S as well. Stretched out garment measurements by hand:

1/2 chest pit to pit: 54cm
Length from base of neck to bottom: 62 cm
Sleeves length: 62cm
Waist/hips at base: 44cm

Shoulder is a bit tricky, it depends on how you measure it, see picture:
Shoulder to shoulder (red line) : 44cm
Shoulder seams (black line) : 38 cm
(This is also how Cavour themselves measured and made many people anxious it might fit too small, but shoulder to shoulder (the usual way people do shoulder measurements) is normal sized.)

I'm 1.70m (5ft7 ish), 60kgs, normal build and it fits me really well. A more relaxed fit due to the slightly larger chest measurements than indicated but that's absolutely good thing imo.

View attachment 1895733
-----

Yes, all types of wool pill with friction and use. It's not a question about whether it pills but how much it pills. As for Merino in particular, it should not pill easily. Merino is known to be "pill-resistant" compared to other fibres. But again, though Merino is very commercialised, it's not really subject to hard industry parameters except that it comes from the Merino sheep. Transparency about which mill or what yarn quality is not standard. This is why there can be a discrepancy between Merino wool knits accross brands. Some pill or get holes more easily than expected. S&M knits are nice value proposition, but it's definitely on the budget side and it's not as durable as some knit focused brands mentioned in this thread.

I will prob pikc up one of the cavour ones esp at the sale price. Just unsure of sizing. I'm also about 5'7 but I weigh around 65kgs so I get the sense I could go either way.

I am also in search for turtlenecks that have a nice texture or pattern to them rather than just plain solid.
 

SartoriaModerna

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Another new knit:

Got this Falconeri cashmere rollneck in "Milk White" gifted today. Feelings are a bit mixed about this one. Softness is okay, I'd say it's a great value proposition as introductory garment in the cashmere world but you can definitely feel the quality difference with higher-end cashmere brands.

The discrepancy is very clear when it comes to the fit and construction. It's knitted in a very weird way that the shoulders are rigid, kind of like a what a padding does to a suit. The upper part of the shoulder seams (third pic) feel inflexible and hard. This also creates a sort of inflexible effect on the neckline, stiff shoulders contract the neckline and you can see on last photo that the roll neck part is bulged.

Colour wise, it looks like ecru to me and in real life even more a yellowish hue to it. Though I do think it's a nice colour, the product page states "milk white" and you clearly see crisp soft white colour in the pics. Now, I know colours differ with studio effects and pc screens but this is completely another hue imo...

for reference : https://www.falconeri.com/be/produc...__8481_Z_COL_FALCU=8259#productDetailsSection

Otherwise, it feels a bit softer than Uniqlo, thickness about same (quite thin), my girlfriend previously had a black rollneck from Falconeri store and construction felt better on her garment. Maybe quality varies among batches? Though I was at first positively impressed with my girlfriend's garment, now I'm rather dissapointed in mine. You get what you pay for so not a big issue here, but just a story how expectations need to be kept reasonable despite an impressive first impression.
IMG_9650.jpg
IMG_9647 2.JPG
IMG_9648.JPG
IMG_9643.jpg
 

SartoriaModerna

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I will prob pikc up one of the cavour ones esp at the sale price. Just unsure of sizing. I'm also about 5'7 but I weigh around 65kgs so I get the sense I could go either way.

I am also in search for turtlenecks that have a nice texture or pattern to them rather than just plain solid.

S for normal fit (65kgs would not be issue, I have room left at waist), M for oversized/relaxed fit. I also think it depends how you wanna layer it or whether you want to wear it as standalone piece. Always an option to ask in the Cavour thread for advice, Kevin (the co-owner) answers quickly!

Not sure what kind of pattern you are looking for, but Gran Sasso has some nice subtle patterns in knits. Pini parma has nice cable knits. Not in cashmere per se though.
 

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