Cars We Drive!

[Omega Male]

Oh come on. The Volvo BEVs are a joke. They are several gens behind Tesla and not credible entries. No one has had real success building BEVs on ICE platforms and neither will Volvo. Looks fine for a chunky small car with bad proportions (they can’t help the proportions in this class) but it’s hamstrung by its platform.

None of this is to discredit the criticism of Tesla right now. They have manufacturing issues galore and some design problems from being new to the car game but no one will beat them by converting old ICE platforms. $50k for a 4800 lb pig with sub 200 mile range and less than 15 cubic feet of cargo space? That’s a huge failure.

Lets see what Volvo can do in 5 years, right now the Model Y clownstomps these toys. I still wouldn’t get a Y until they can prove they can screw it together well and build out a parts and service network to scale, but at least it’s not DOA like most of these other BEVs.
Mach 1 is at least in the game. I don’t love it, but give them credit for addressing the market in a legitimate fashion. Lets see how the ID4 does as well.

Plus the Polestars are just plain weird. Why start with a full-size two door? And who was crying out for a semi-crossover kinda-hatchback? Oh and let's make them plug ugly!

 

[HRoi]

Oh come on. The Volvo BEVs are a joke. They are several gens behind Tesla and not credible entries. No one has had real success building BEVs on ICE platforms and neither will Volvo. Looks fine for a chunky small car with bad proportions (they can’t help the proportions in this class) but it’s hamstrung by its platform.

None of this is to discredit the criticism of Tesla right now. They have manufacturing issues galore and some design problems from being new to the car game but no one will beat them by converting old ICE platforms. $50k for a 4800 lb pig with sub 200 mile range and less than 15 cubic feet of cargo space? That’s a huge failure.

Lets see what Volvo can do in 5 years, right now the Model Y clownstomps these toys. I still wouldn’t get a Y until they can prove they can screw it together well and build out a parts and service network to scale, but at least it’s not DOA like most of these other BEVs.
Mach 1 is at least in the game. I don’t love it, but give them credit for addressing the market in a legitimate fashion. Lets see how the ID4 does as well.

Was purely referring to design and manufacturing ability - no argument on Tesla’s other advantages. If they can match Volvo or VAG on those items then they’ll take the next step forward

 

[jbarwick]

Oh come on. The Volvo BEVs are a joke. They are several gens behind Tesla and not credible entries. No one has had real success building BEVs on ICE platforms and neither will Volvo. Looks fine for a chunky small car with bad proportions (they can’t help the proportions in this class) but it’s hamstrung by its platform.

None of this is to discredit the criticism of Tesla right now. They have manufacturing issues galore and some design problems from being new to the car game but no one will beat them by converting old ICE platforms. $50k for a 4800 lb pig with sub 200 mile range and less than 15 cubic feet of cargo space? That’s a huge failure.

Lets see what Volvo can do in 5 years, right now the Model Y clownstomps these toys. I still wouldn’t get a Y until they can prove they can screw it together well and build out a parts and service network to scale, but at least it’s not DOA like most of these other BEVs.
Mach 1 is at least in the game. I don’t love it, but give them credit for addressing the market in a legitimate fashion. Lets see how the ID4 does as well.

Doug DeMuro just released his ID4 video and I assume others will pop up as well. Seems decent enough but that infotainment lag is laughable. As bad as my 2016 Outback.

 

[Piobaire]

All of you dissing Volvo will be met with a two week thread ban if you keep this **** up.

Is Lucid ever going to get to market? I think they have Tesla's designer or something, no?

 

[clee1982]

Lucid does look decent, but I wish one of the traditional manufacturer could really step up. They shouldn't outgun Tesla in speed, instead they should try outrange if they can..., I mean anything sub 5 sec 0 to 60 is more than sufficient for merging traffic...

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

Something tells me this will quickly become the least popular vehicle in inner cities across the country

 

[Beckwith]

Everyone be underestimating the Tesla charging network, no other company can succeed, except maybe the bigs. It will be hard to place new chargers in locations as power consumption is high and most high volume areas won't be able to handle that charging surge. Telsa installed supercharges in mixed use residential/shopping area. Residents complained of power drains, Tesla throttled down super charges at that location. It is painful to use. Home charging will be only option for many and that won't be enough. Tahoe > XC90

 

[HRoi]

I still have my doubts on whether EV’s can be truly mass produced enough to fully take over (like, does the earth even have enough lithium), but Tesla does have one huge potential competitor for charger networks - the electric utility companies.

They already have the tech, the network, the endpoint placements, and a very powerful motivator (dat $$) to enter the game. and if they do so they will not be inclined to make it a closed loop for any automaker.

 

[Piobaire]

Tahoe > XC90

You're dead to me.

REPORTED!

 

[Beckwith]

Dat american v6 power tho. And a 24 gallon fuel tank, that XC90 tank was painfully small. HRoi, interesting point, but an open loop with this many EVs coming online will just plain suck. The lines to wait at Tesla only places in the right demographics is starting to be painful, imagine an open network. My neighbor with the Taycan has to find a dealership to charge his car. It is useless as a practical car that will go beyond the limits of anything more than daily, which maybe to most will be enough.

 

[HRoi]

Agreed. We will need to get to a point where chargers to vehicles in service ratios get to at least where gas is, AND recharging times get cut drastically

 

[jbarwick]

As previously discussed, I will have an ICE for long haul drives and could use EV in town or even a 3hr one way trip without issue.

 

[UnFacconable]

Agreed. We will need to get to a point where chargers to vehicles in service ratios get to at least where gas is, AND recharging times get cut drastically

Why? This is both an irrelevant and largely impossible standard to meet, particularly the first one. It's like saying gasoline can't compete with electricity until you can get gas at home. The vast majority of every EV's energy needs will be met by nightly charging at home. That doesn't mean that we don't need ex-home charging options for long distance travel and for owners without in-home charging, but your standard ignores one of the great advantages of EVs. Every morning you wake up with a full battery and you didn't have to go anywhere to get that. Faster charge times for empty batteries is certainly going to be useful and things are moving in that direction but EVs will never need anywhere close to the proliferation of gas stations.

Right now EVs are a luxury for most and there are still many who would have a separate road trip ICE in addition to their EV which obviously isn't a permanent solution, but you will never need as many charging locations as you currently do gas stations.

As previously discussed, I will have an ICE for long haul drives and could use EV in town or even a 3hr one way trip without issue.

Exactly. People love to point out the problems with EVs for niche use cases but seem to ignore that they cover the primary use case better than ICE vehicles do. I guess it's the same reason some people think they need a massive car for the once or twice a year that they do some big road trip or home depot run. They aren't wrong that their car was useful in those scenarios, but the bulk of their usage doesn't come close to requiring that functionality. As I've mentioned before, we have a big legacy SUV and I love having it for the few things our smaller SUV can't do, but it's far from an everyday thing for us.

One of the jobs I was looking at would require me to actually go to the office. I would have gotten an EV for that because I hate getting gas during my commute and we already have a family car which would work for roadtrips. Our bigger issue, and the reason we don't currently have an EV, is that we only have garaged parking for 1 car but that is going to change in time.

 

[otc]

Something tells me this will quickly become the least popular vehicle in inner cities across the country

With the amount of tweakers looking for more meth out in rural america... I'm not sure who would actually want a doors/panels-off car these days except for suburban dwellers pretending they are out in the wild while they hit up grocery store and tour operators in Moab.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

With the amount of tweakers looking for more meth out in rural america... I'm not sure who would actually want a doors/panels-off car these days except for suburban dwellers pretending they are out in the wild while they hit up grocery store and tour operators in Moab.

We have several (that I know of) big Jeep clubs here in Jersey that actually do go off road. My favorite is actually one of my buddies group: JEEPERS CREEPERS

I imagine these new Bronco owners will find out the hard way, like the Jeep Community did when Jeep started putting things in worth stealing. That's why I would never buy a rag top with plastic windows. I stop at Miata. Unfortunately those with lift kits won’t be able to fit in many parking garages, so it’s a crapshoot.