Cars We Drive!

[Thrift Vader]

And expensive.

 

[HRoi]

Bear in mind that an electric motor produces torque (and therefore power) in a very different way than an ICE. In most ICEs, you need to rev to a pretty high RPM to get its maximum power. An electric motor on the other hand will lose torque (and therefore power) above a certain RPM, so it will make its maximum horsepower at lower speeds or revolutions, if you have some kind of gearing.

I decided to read up more about what BMW is doing. The EV actually shows promise - looks like they’re trying to out-Taycan Porsche, which would be a fine outcome. The most interesting part is the 3 motor setup (one for front axle, one independent for each rear wheel), which allows for the ultimate torque vectoring application.

the hybrid I’m still confused about - aren’t electric motors supposed to eliminate turbo lag? Because bmw has already virtually eliminated it in their turbo motors. And the current gen TT V8 already supports 800+ hp easily, so I wonder what is gained by this model..?

 

[clee1982]

well, turbo lag is relative, I don't think my B58 has any "lag", but compare to electric, it is still not the same (especially with the fact that there is still gear to shift, I have a very steep up ramp here to get on to some bridge, that's the only time I find this ZF8 sometimes might be in the slightly wrong gear, though I don't think I can do much better, so you can accelerate up, then run into some slow moving truck, or bicycle for that matter, or just slow creep up then realize there is no one there).

I guess another reason I can think of is regulation, we know BMW is abandoning V12, probably V8 is only going to survive another generation too. If you look at the newly released 545e (not for NA, basically detuned B58+110hp electric), I would think that's the new 550 (i.e. full power B58 then say 150hp electric). Though I guess for new M5 it would be like 650hp+150hp electric (and if it has decent battery then it can make the fuel economy number a lot better).

 

[A Y]

the hybrid I’m still confused about - aren’t electric motors supposed to eliminate turbo lag? Because bmw has already virtually eliminated it in their turbo motors. And the current gen TT V8 already supports 800+ hp easily, so I wonder what is gained by this model..?

I don't know, but maybe using an electric motor could let them relax some other part of the design. For example, maybe their turbo system could be simpler, cheaper, or maybe more durable?

 

[clee1982]

though my fear to BMW's approach to electric is this mixed platform, they tout it as maximum flexibility (produce gas/hybrid/electric all on the same line), which sounds to me like maximum compromise (not as good as it can be in either ICE or electric). Though 2023 is when BMW launching dedicated electric platform as well, so maybe this one would be on that?

and on BMW, would prefer if it wasn't in black

1995 BMW 850CSi 6-Speed

Bid for the chance to own a 1995 BMW 850CSi 6-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #35,069.

bringatrailer.com

 

[TheFoo]

Would think electric throttle input is very predictable vs gas, no turbo lag, unless 2 gear no extra kick randomly. If you can step on it while going from stationary would think you can step any time.

Throttle response and linearity of power delivery are different things. The “throttle” in an electric car is purely software and can be adjusted however a maker wants. Meanwhile, power delivery in an electric car is more or less instant; you don’t have to hit a particular RPM range to be making peak torque. I’m not well read enough on how electric race cars are engineered, but the problem with instant-on power is that it can cause a sudden loss of traction that makes it difficult to hold a line when turning. I’m supposing this is why electric cars are often AWD and have sophisticated/complex torque vectoring systems.

In contrast, a naturally aspirated engine generates torque in a linear fashion as RPMs build. So, a driver can more gradually and incrementally push a car toward the limits of adhesion while turning. Turbos are not as instant-on as an electric motor, but they do suddenly surge in torque at a certain RPM, which makes them similarly difficult to handle.

 

[clee1982]

yup, I understand that, so you can tune it "linear" all the way if so desired.

If torque curve is flat, then power all depends on rpm, so my point being you can tune it to "no surprise"

 

[HRoi]

I mean I don’t disagree that bmw still has a little bit of turbo lag/electric is still more instant-on, the benefit is not going to be significant. 0-30 times of the F90 M5 are dead even with the Taycan Turbo S, for example.

which conversely is also evidence that off the line traction can be managed in an electric car - Porsche’s done it. We’ll see when the Evija comes out if Lotus figures it out at 2000 hp and much lighter weights, though

 

[Omega Male]

All this electric car talk is making me want to own a V12 while I still can. I've had a natural 4 (VW), turbo 4 (Saab. RIP.), turbo 5 (Volvo), turbo 6 (Audi), natural 6 (Porsche), triple turbo diesel 6 (BMW M50d), supercharged V8 (Range Rover) and twin turbo V8 (AMG). It would be kind of like ticking the final IC box before giving in to the inevitable.

 

[brokencycle]

All this electric car talk is making me want to own a V12 while I still can. I've had a natural 4 (VW), turbo 4 (Saab. RIP.), turbo 5 (Volvo), turbo 6 (Audi), natural 6 (Porsche), triple turbo diesel 6 (BMW M50d), supercharged V8 (Range Rover) and twin turbo V8 (AMG). It would be kind of like ticking the final IC box before giving in to the inevitable.

Don't forget a V10 -- get a Viper.

 

[Omega Male]

Damn it.

 

[HRoi]

I had a plan for this - grab a 550 Maranello while it’s criminally undervalued. Alas, they no longer are. Now it might have to be an AM DBS.

or an E31 850ci and pretend I sort of have the same engine as the McLaren F1

 

[Thrift Vader]

850ci is a solid choice.

 

[clee1982]

Damn it.

V16 while you're at it too!

and W16, which gets pricy...

 

[clee1982]

I had a plan for this - grab a 550 Maranello while it’s criminally undervalued. Alas, they no longer are. Now it might have to be an AM DBS.

or an E31 850ci and pretend I sort of have the same engine as the McLaren F1

while we're at it

1995 BMW 850CSi 6-Speed

Bid for the chance to own a 1995 BMW 850CSi 6-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #35,069.

bringatrailer.com