Cars We Drive!

[Omega Male]

Drove the AMG GT 63 today. Absolute beast. Interior quality also a step up from anything I've seen from Mercedes before. Wife thought the styling was too aggro and rear seat room too tight to really be practical, so probably no.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

And $50k is not enough for a pristine E46 M3 either ?

Stating the obvious, these are not ‘normal’ people we’re talking about here. Prolly a dude for whom $50k feels like $10k. It should be noted that the loser in the bidding war is a YouTuber who wanted the car for some content he was planning (so there’s other reasons for going above what we might consider the intrinsic value of the car)

You mean like every Youtuber that Ford selfishly chose over their dedicated fan base to buy the new Ford GT? What a stupid ass reason to "allow" someone to spend their money on a car.




I know Rob Ferretti from back in my Ferrari days and I was also a dedicated DVD customer of his at the NYC Auto Shows. We use to shoot the **** about current dealership owners and how much of a hassle they were to deal with. He's not wrong though, he does have the most viewed Ford GT video on the internet, and he's not even the driver. I know the driver lol, it's his boss at Gotham City Dream Cars. I certainly don't condone this type of driving, especially in Jersey

 

[clee1982]

And $50k is not enough for a pristine E46 M3 either ?

Stating the obvious, these are not ‘normal’ people we’re talking about here. Prolly a dude for whom $50k feels like $10k. It should be noted that the loser in the bidding war is a YouTuber who wanted the car for some content he was planning (so there’s other reasons for going above what we might consider the intrinsic value of the car)

How about da 330CI ZHP...

 

[Dino944]

Again I hear what you're saying but to the Honda sports car community, that 5K Civic Si is the kind of thing people lust over. It's a blank canvas waiting for an artist to paint on. The point I was making is that bedroom cars are one thing but what someone can afford is another. I can lust after a Ferrari for the rest of my life, but may never be in the position to actually walk into a dealer and buy one new. Even if I had the money, I would never do that anyway, as I have been there done that with a plethora of new Ferrari's, and they just don't get my loins going like they use to. I'd much rather a car from my bedroom wall era. I saw a 458 Spider today and I just couldn't get excited like I once did before working for them. The Matt of old would've waited for the owner to arrive and follow him with camera in hand until I could no longer keep up. However when I see a Subaru STI (mass produced by comparison sake sure), I feel my heart rate spike and I actually stop and admire it. That might have to do with my reticular activating system, but I certainly notice it more with the STI over the Ferrari. My finances are a driving force in that I think. Maybe one day I will be as excited as I once was with Ferrari's, they certainly make a sound that still gets me. Had a 488GTB fly by while I was inside my beachfront apartment and I just knew it when I heard it, that it was a Ferrari. No car short of a modified STI can do that to me these days.

It's not about Subies and Civics and whether Ferraris no longer do anything for you. Yes, I understand there is a market for people who will pay anything because they are maybe die hard Honda guys. I can see people paying big money for a low mileage NSX, Supra Turbo from the 90s, the old 1990s Turbo RX7 Thrift posted, and maybe someday in the future a S2000. I'm just struggling to see it with the Civic SI.

Here is the other difference though, between say an old air cooled 911 with say 5,000 miles and a Civic Si with 5,000 miles. The 911 buyer is paying a premium because he wants it as close to how it left the factory as possible. He doesn't want it modded with superchargers, turbos, body kits, aftermarket seats, aftermarket stereos,and wild paint jobs. The person is buying the car to experience the car as close to new as possible. In addition, one doesn't have to worry about paint condition or interior pieces being worn out, and requiring replacement. Yes, someone can buy a modded car and restore many things to OEM. However, as one collector was telling me, its only original once, once its been modded, repainted etc, even if you get to the best body shops and mechanics, its never original...and to that collector (which I realize isn't everyone), the car is of no interest.

The Civic SI as you mentioned is a blank canvas for an artist. Well if someone is going to mod the hell out of it, why not just wait, search and find one with 40,000 to 50,000 miles and pay a fraction of the cost. Because paint condition, cosmetics, etc don't matter, if you are going to mod it.

Also, if the buyer can afford to drop $50K on a Civic, and then do a bunch of mods...I don't think it is really about financial constraints. Young guys in my area buy Civics, Subies, and a host of other cars and they mod the hell out of them and they don't start with anything close to $50K.

Base Subaru is the most mundane car ever.
Good Subaru's are well finished. And fast.
STI'S are able to chase down almost anything.

Yea, but the difference is the boring base Subie can do almost 250,000 miles without having massive problems and being sidelined while waiting for a rebuild.

Your old yellow STi Beast, as cool and powerful as it was seemed like it was rarely running properly.

 

[clee1982]

NA engine though, and 8500 rpm, so assuming no engine mode, so exhaust, suspension and cosmetics?

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

It's not about Subies and Civics and whether Ferraris no longer do anything for you. Yes, I understand there is a market for people who will pay anything because they are maybe die hard Honda guys. I can see people paying big money for a low mileage NSX, Supra Turbo from the 90s, the old 1990s Turbo RX7 Thrift posted, and maybe someday in the future a S2000. I'm just struggling to see it with the Civic SI.

Here is the other difference though, between say an old air cooled 911 with say 5,000 miles and a Civic Si with 5,000 miles. The 911 buyer is paying a premium because he wants it as close to how it left the factory as possible. He doesn't want it modded with superchargers, turbos, body kits, aftermarket seats, aftermarket stereos,and wild paint jobs. The person is buying the car to experience the car as close to new as possible. In addition, one doesn't have to worry about paint condition or interior pieces being worn out, and requiring replacement. Yes, someone can buy a modded car and restore many things to OEM. However, as one collector was telling me, its only original once, once its been modded, repainted etc, even if you get to the best body shops and mechanics, its never original...and to that collector (which I realize isn't everyone), the car is of no interest.

The Civic SI as you mentioned is a blank canvas for an artist. Well if someone is going to mod the hell out of it, why not just wait, search and find one with 40,000 to 50,000 miles and pay a fraction of the cost. Because paint condition, cosmetics, etc don't matter, if you are going to mod it.

Also, if the buyer can afford to drop $50K on a Civic, and then do a bunch of mods...I don't think it is really about financial constraints. Young guys in my area buy Civics, Subies, and a host of other cars and they mod the hell out of them and they don't start with anything close to $50K.



Yea, but the difference is the boring base Subie can do almost 250,000 miles without having massive problems and being sidelined while waiting for a rebuild.

Your old yellow STi Beast, as cool and powerful as it was seemed like it was rarely running properly.

I think you might've taken my original post way out of context and here we are 2 pages later still in disagreement. I simply made a comparison between one automaker and another and the avid fan base they garner. Obviously I am not comparing a Civic Si to a Porsche, and if that is what you think I am saying then I apologize if I didn't put more emphasis on it, but I was just under the impression that was obvious. However you cannot put a price on passion or feeling, no matter what the car, that is up to the consumer.

I guess what irked me originally, was the way you had lumped the Civic Si, as a "mass produced, basic transportation, nothing special" Civic. The two couldn't be further apart, and I speak from 12 years of experience, side by side with a base model. The 2000 Civic Si is one of the most (if not the most) beloved generation, and that's strictly stock speaking, not from a tuners viewpoint. I'm not a tuner, as after-all this time my car is still bone stock, short of a K&N drop in air filter. The naturally aspirated high revving engine of this generation Civic Si was a modern marvel in engineering, not just for the power it put down per liter, but also for their reliability and high mpg's they achieved.

 

[TheFoo]

I was in high school in the late 90’s when the enthusiast fervor for Japanese car was at its peak. Cars like the Integra Type R and S2000 and Supra were hero cars for my generation. Used prices today reflect that, as folks my age can finally afford to buy their childhood dream cars.

No, the Civic SI doesn’t quite rank in that top tier—but it was a very cool, enviable car in the school parking lot! It’s also quite rare. So, I’m not surprised prices are high.

 

[Dino944]

I think you might've taken my original post way out of context and here we are 2 pages later still in disagreement. I simply made a comparison between one automaker and another and the avid fan base they garner. Obviously I am not comparing a Civic Si to a Porsche, and if that is what you think I am saying then I apologize if I didn't put more emphasis on it, but I was just under the impression that was obvious. However you cannot put a price on passion or feeling, no matter what the car, that is up to the consumer.

I guess what irked me originally, was the way you had lumped the Civic Si, as a "mass produced, basic transportation, nothing special" Civic. The two couldn't be further apart, and I speak from 12 years of experience, side by side with a base model. The 2000 Civic Si is one of the most (if not the most) beloved generation, and that's strictly stock speaking, not from a tuners viewpoint. I'm not a tuner, as after-all this time my car is still bone stock, short of a K&N drop in air filter. The naturally aspirated high revving engine of this generation Civic Si was a modern marvel in engineering, not just for the power it put down per liter, but also for their reliability and high mpg's they achieved.

I get that there is an avid fan base. That can be said of Vettes, BMWs, Subies, etc. No, I didn't think the comparison was directly between a 911 and a Civic. My point was merely when someone buys a 5,000 mile air cooled 911 and pays a premium for its mileage and condition, their purpose is drastically different than what you said the purpose is when someone pays a premium for the mileage and condition of the 5,000 mile Civic Si. All the factory fresh condition and what is probably nearly flawless paint, becomes a bit of a waste when one repaints it, adds a body kit, and mods the hell out of it.

If my words about the Civic Si irked you, I apologize. I do think its a far better looking body style than many of their more recent offerings. Still, I've never had any special feelings about the Civic Si or the Integra R. With the exception of the original NSX, 90s' Turbo Supra and the 60's Toyota 2000GT, I just don't get very excited about Japanese cars. There are even plenty of high end cars and exotics I have no interest in ...such current Lamborghinis, current Maseratis, current Astons, the BMW Z8, the Enzo, the FF, the 599, the GT3RS, GT2RS etc.. so don't take it personally. No car can be everything to everyone.

 

[TheFoo]

I get that there is an avid fan base. That can be said of Vettes, BMWs, Subies, etc. No, I didn't think the comparison was directly between a 911 and a Civic. My point was merely when someone buys a 5,000 mile air cooled 911 and pays a premium for its mileage and condition, their purpose is drastically different than what you said the purpose is when someone pays a premium for the mileage and condition of the 5,000 mile Civic Si. All the factory fresh condition and what is probably nearly flawless paint, becomes a bit of a waste when one repaints it, adds a body kit, and mods the hell out of it.

If my words about the Civic Si irked you, I apologize. I do think its a far better looking body style than many of their more recent offerings. Still, I've never had any special feelings about the Civic Si or the Integra R. With the exception of the original NSX, 90s' Turbo Supra and the 60's Toyota 2000GT, I just don't get very excited about Japanese cars. There are even plenty of high end cars and exotics I have no interest in ...such current Lamborghinis, current Maseratis, current Astons, the BMW Z8, the Enzo, the FF, the 599, the GT3RS, GT2RS etc.. so don't take it personally. No car can be everything to everyone.

I’m late to this, but the value in a Civic Si with only 5,000 miles very much lies in keeping it clean. Nobody is buying cars like that to mod them. It would be madness.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

How about da 330CI ZHP...

Those are stupidly overpriced

 

[clee1982]

are they still the case (like close to E46 M3 that you might as well kind close)? and all E46 has subframe issue?

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

are they still the case (like close to E46 M3 that you might as well kind close)? and all E46 has subframe issue?

There is a big overlap in pricing between the two

A zhp passed me on the road the other day and I involuntarily mumbled "Dat zhp..." and then started cracking up

 

[clee1982]

is E92 M3 getting crazy price too?

 

[Dino944]

I’m late to this, but the value in a Civic Si with only 5,000 miles very much lies in keeping it clean. Nobody is buying cars like that to mod them. It would be madness.

Well traditionally, that is true of ultra low mileage cars...but that isn't what OMG was saying.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

Well traditionally, that is true of ultra low mileage cars...but that isn't what OMG was saying.

The point I was making with the blank canvas wasn’t actually centered completely around modification. I meant it being whatever they want it to be, a daily driver, a showcase piece, or yes fully built racecar, whatever they want to do. This is the very reason why I’m buying an STI new, because I don’t want to buy anyone else’s mistakes or inherited issues (hence a blank canvas). An exhaust or wheels hardly accounts for modding these days, as plenty of members here are guilty of that and more. I chose to keep my canvas pretty blank, instead choosing to just polishing it clean, so to speak. I mentioned previously, I’m not a modder, so I wouldn’t even know where to begin to craft an argument towards it. Heck anytime I bring my car in for service and the Service Advisor admires the paint condition at such a high mileage, I feel like an artist. That’s more in line what I meant, but should’ve expressed it clearer.

As far as the current popularity towards Supras, RX7’s, and NSX’s, pop culture has just as much to do with that as it does with Bourbon’s like Pappy Van Winkle 23. There was a time not long ago when that could be found and the shelf for less then $70. Now it goes for an average of $3,000 on the secondary market. The same goes for the aforementioned cars, and I’d wager Fast and Furious has more then something to do with that. How much longer will it last is what I’m wondering. Also those 3 models are also heavily sought after for tuning. There’s a Supra engine that can achieve over 1000 HP with moderate modifications.

Also from Rob Ferretti:



Anyway, as a Civic Si owner I do appreciate the apology. I feel you on the FF and 599, those aren’t among my favorites. I still remember putting a 599 on display by the highway showcase, and a highly modified muscle car pulled up to the light and I proceeded to rev the **** out of her. He didn’t even look. Different strokes I guess.