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clee1982

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Not cheap I assume, but if it’s say 150k it would sell
 

otc

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It mentions every specification save for 1. The price.
I don't know what it mentions because when I click on it from my computer, all I get is this:
1635119093379.png


Fuck you apple. Stop trying to ruin the internet with your walled gardens.
 

otc

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So I have studless winter tires, and I just bought more studless winter tires for my wife's new awd car.

But I now live in a state that permits the use of studded tires (the upper midwest pretty much banned them decades ago).

I'm kind of curious to see how this will all shake out. Much of what I read suggests that modern winter tire compounds/patterns have gotten so good that studs really aren't necessary and aren't worth the harm they cause to the roads. Also a lot of commentary suggesting that people are just set in their ways and don't actually have side by side experience with modern winter tires (not to mention cheapo studded tires still work well on ice even if their snow and dry road performance sucks).

But I'm also witnessing a conversation on local facebook where lots of people are on the "I never ever run anything besides studs" train, including a few who claim to have tried blizzaks and gone back to studs. Of course there are also a couple saying a good studless is fine (especially if you understand winter driving).

We'll see if I regret this choice. Personally I'd like to do my part to cut down on road damage...and heck growing up in MN we just used plain old all seasons for the most part (but MN salts aggressively...so you don't really get substantial long-term ice).
 

yorkshire pud

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So I have studless winter tires, and I just bought more studless winter tires for my wife's new awd car.

But I now live in a state that permits the use of studded tires (the upper midwest pretty much banned them decades ago).

I'm kind of curious to see how this will all shake out. Much of what I read suggests that modern winter tire compounds/patterns have gotten so good that studs really aren't necessary and aren't worth the harm they cause to the roads. Also a lot of commentary suggesting that people are just set in their ways and don't actually have side by side experience with modern winter tires (not to mention cheapo studded tires still work well on ice even if their snow and dry road performance sucks).

But I'm also witnessing a conversation on local facebook where lots of people are on the "I never ever run anything besides studs" train, including a few who claim to have tried blizzaks and gone back to studs. Of course there are also a couple saying a good studless is fine (especially if you understand winter driving).

We'll see if I regret this choice. Personally I'd like to do my part to cut down on road damage...and heck growing up in MN we just used plain old all seasons for the most part (but MN salts aggressively...so you don't really get substantial long-term ice).
We use Michelin Cross Climate all year round on our works vans, they are good in snow especially if you have AWD, no studs allowed on our roads but I do carry some chains just in case I ever need to rescue somebody on sheet ice.

I think good quality winter tyres and a set of chains for emergencies (try costco) are a good compromise.

We do get some shitty weather in Yorkshire in Winter
 

Marc Voorhees

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So I have studless winter tires, and I just bought more studless winter tires for my wife's new awd car.

But I now live in a state that permits the use of studded tires (the upper midwest pretty much banned them decades ago).

I'm kind of curious to see how this will all shake out. Much of what I read suggests that modern winter tire compounds/patterns have gotten so good that studs really aren't necessary and aren't worth the harm they cause to the roads. Also a lot of commentary suggesting that people are just set in their ways and don't actually have side by side experience with modern winter tires (not to mention cheapo studded tires still work well on ice even if their snow and dry road performance sucks).

But I'm also witnessing a conversation on local facebook where lots of people are on the "I never ever run anything besides studs" train, including a few who claim to have tried blizzaks and gone back to studs. Of course there are also a couple saying a good studless is fine (especially if you understand winter driving).

We'll see if I regret this choice. Personally I'd like to do my part to cut down on road damage...and heck growing up in MN we just used plain old all seasons for the most part (but MN salts aggressively...so you don't really get substantial long-term ice).
Do you live in the artic or something? Short of major snow and no remediation I can't imagine studded tires are really needed. for the first time in my life I have winter tires of any type, and I don't' think I really notice the difference between them and my nice all seasons. I can't imagine studs making that big of a difference all in all.

But without a chart in your post I am struggling with how to analyze this information :)
 

otc

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Do you live in the artic or something? Short of major snow and no remediation I can't imagine studded tires are really needed. for the first time in my life I have winter tires of any type, and I don't' think I really notice the difference between them and my nice all seasons. I can't imagine studs making that big of a difference all in all.

But without a chart in your post I am struggling with how to analyze this information :)
Yeah, I mean that's kind of my read on it. Especially coming from an area where studs are flat out banned (I know it is not perfectly sound reasoning, but if studs were that much safer, they would allow them, at least outside of cities). People are just set in their ways and sharp metal studs just look and feel like they must be the best.

That said, the issue here is with ice pack in a way that the upper midwest just doesn't get. In deep snow, studs make no difference as the tread pattern is doing all the work.

Since you wanted a chart, here's one from 1995....and the studless designs have only continued to improve while metal studs are still metal studs:
1635181621271.png


I've also seen some evidence that says that as long as SOME people have studded tires, everyone gets the benefit--the people with studded tires chew up the ice surface, which makes it super easy for the studless winter tires to grip.
 

Numbernine

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So I have studless winter tires, and I just bought more studless winter tires for my wife's new awd car.

But I now live in a state that permits the use of studded tires (the upper midwest pretty much banned them decades ago).

I'm kind of curious to see how this will all shake out. Much of what I read suggests that modern winter tire compounds/patterns have gotten so good that studs really aren't necessary and aren't worth the harm they cause to the roads. Also a lot of commentary suggesting that people are just set in their ways and don't actually have side by side experience with modern winter tires (not to mention cheapo studded tires still work well on ice even if their snow and dry road performance sucks).

But I'm also witnessing a conversation on local facebook where lots of people are on the "I never ever run anything besides studs" train, including a few who claim to have tried blizzaks and gone back to studs. Of course there are also a couple saying a good studless is fine (especially if you understand winter driving).

We'll see if I regret this choice. Personally I'd like to do my part to cut down on road damage...and heck growing up in MN we just used plain old all seasons for the most part (but MN salts aggressively...so you don't really get substantial long-term ice).
I think you'll be fine dry light snow has pretty good traction it only gets bad near freezing temps or melt re freeze . I been driving mountain snow conditions for forty five years and only felt the need for anything beyond all terrain/m+s on 4wd a handful of times.
 

Fueco

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I’ve only had one situation in six winters of driving in Colorado where stuffed tires might have been nice. That was a one-off storm that dropped a wintry mix that melted and froze as the temps cooled down into the night. I came really close to sliding off the other side of the road before one of my tires caught the road.

I’ve only used all season tires before (I have an AWD SUV), though I did get studless snow tires for our FWD van last weekend.
 

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