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brokencycle

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Why? This is both an irrelevant and largely impossible standard to meet, particularly the first one. It's like saying gasoline can't compete with electricity until you can get gas at home. The vast majority of every EV's energy needs will be met by nightly charging at home. That doesn't mean that we don't need ex-home charging options for long distance travel and for owners without in-home charging, but your standard ignores one of the great advantages of EVs. Every morning you wake up with a full battery and you didn't have to go anywhere to get that. Faster charge times for empty batteries is certainly going to be useful and things are moving in that direction but EVs will never need anywhere close to the proliferation of gas stations.

Right now EVs are a luxury for most and there are still many who would have a separate road trip ICE in addition to their EV which obviously isn't a permanent solution, but you will never need as many charging locations as you currently do gas stations.
Agreed. The problem with these kinds of transitions is that people naturally compare them to what exists. Okay, maybe I need to stop for an hour each way on a road trip that I take once a year, but if it takes me 10 minutes to get gas, and I fill up once a week, that's 9 hours of time a year I spend getting gas.

Plus, if charging is available in parking lots where I can stop and eat or do something while it charges, it isn't even that much of a hassle. With a 300 mile range, that's 4-5 hours of driving, and I want a break after that long anyway.


Exactly. People love to point out the problems with EVs for niche use cases but seem to ignore that they cover the primary use case better than ICE vehicles do. I guess it's the same reason some people think they need a massive car for the once or twice a year that they do some big road trip or home depot run. They aren't wrong that their car was useful in those scenarios, but the bulk of their usage doesn't come close to requiring that functionality. As I've mentioned before, we have a big legacy SUV and I love having it for the few things our smaller SUV can't do, but it's far from an everyday thing for us.
We do that for all kinds of things. How many people buy houses with a bedroom for guests that come once or twice a year or a kitchen sized for Thanksgiving dinner?
 

vdubiv

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We do that for all kinds of things. How many people buy houses with a bedroom for guests that come once or twice a year or a kitchen sized for Thanksgiving dinner?
true story my wife and I have a 3 bedroom house and it's only us, we don't have kids and don't plan on any, we could have kept living in a 1 bedroom apartment or something, but wanted something so people could come visit.
 

vdubiv

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I don't think that the market has to be over saturated with charging stations but for me I would like them to be as available as gas stations. Meaning, I don't wanna do a road trip and go through bum fuck hickville and be low on juice and not able to find a charging station because the rednecks that live there aren't up to speed with the rest of society yet. (queue banjo music)

Also, for me I would like charging from E-Full Charge to take the same amount of time as getting gas. When I do long road trips I tend to make my stops an all in one affair, find an exit with a gas station and the type of fast food place I am in the mood for and make one quick pit stop then get on with my trip.
 

HRoi

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Ok. You guys have a point and you’ve changed my mind.

does this mean, then, that the advantage of having a proprietary remote charging network is not such a barrier to competition ?
 

vdubiv

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gas isn't proprietary so I do not think charging stations/systems should be. If EV is the way of the future this needs to be common across the board. We don't need multiple stations doing the same thing for different vehicles and getting confused where you can and can't charge your car.
 

patrick_b

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With the amount of tweakers looking for more meth out in rural america... I'm not sure who would actually want a doors/panels-off car these days except for suburban dwellers pretending they are out in the wild while they hit up grocery store and tour operators in Moab.
Every spring/early summer on the first nice weekend day, my wife and kids want the doors off her Jeep Wrangler. Doors stay off for [at most] three days until either it rains or someone needs to go on the highway.

I'll admit to enjoying it one time when we drove out to the beach the first year she had the jeep. Ever since, I'm just grumpy old guy complaining that there aren't side mirrors and it's too loud and windy.
 

HRoi

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Is your wife from southern California? Doorless cars and convertibles are perfectly suited for that environment (and perhaps nowhere else, really) because the weather is always great and you usually don’t go faster than 40 mph
 

nootje

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Ok. You guys have a point and you’ve changed my mind.

does this mean, then, that the advantage of having a proprietary remote charging network is not such a barrier to competition ?
They are not in competition with the car comps there. Eventually they will be in competition with Shell, BP, Total and after a long time probably even Exxon. That’s going to be a game of getting the best spots along highways and the amenities they can build around them. And those guys already have those spots.. The electricity itself is a bulk product, with margin accordingly.
 

otc

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Ok. You guys have a point and you’ve changed my mind.

does this mean, then, that the advantage of having a proprietary remote charging network is not such a barrier to competition ?


We're still a little bit at the Chicken & Egg area for non-Teslas, but I think that's changing fast. Gas stations (which make most of their profit from the convenience store customers who stopped there for fuel) are an easy entrant that already has physical locations everywhere you might need a charge.

I have been swayed as well. I'm sure someone could find in my post history both the claim that it is silly to buy anything besides a Tesla and the claim that Tesla not an option for me because of road trips...but I'm coming around to the idea that
1) EV blows the 80:20 rule out of the water...it is probably sufficient for 95% of most peoples usage.
2) There are already plenty of chargers out there in most places and gas stations can start to fill the gap.
3) Most road trips are a non-issue with a Tesla, and the more people buy other brand EVs, the sooner it becomes a non-issue for everyone.
 

VaderDave

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Someone in our office building bought a new Toyota Supra recently. I have been looking at it for a couple of days and have to admit that it looks a lot better in person than in any of the pictures I have seen. In particular, the front end, which looked like an homage to Jimmy Durante in the magazine shots I saw, looks pretty good in real life. I also like the semi-matte paint job.

PXL_20210303_192546380.jpg
 

OtterMeanGreen

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Someone in our office building bought a new Toyota Supra recently. I have been looking at it for a couple of days and have to admit that it looks a lot better in person than in any of the pictures I have seen. In particular, the front end, which looked like an homage to Jimmy Durante in the magazine shots I saw, looks pretty good in real life. I also like the semi-matte paint job.

View attachment 1566788
He’s gonna be needing a new front splitter soon, unless the angle is worse then it seems.
 

clee1982

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I thought it cleared it? else he would heard during parking (and then decide to continue ram into it?)
 

VaderDave

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Hm. Looks okay to me, but not by much! Now I sort of want to go look at it from another angle.
 

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