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gomestar

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Polestar is very interesting, although they stole the name I was going to use for my strip club if I ever would own one
take the name Broken Pumps

Just as quick and nimble as the 3.
On this note, i don't quite get why SUVs come well after the sedans with anything being in the EV/Hybrid space. I guess it's to launch with impressive numbers and then 'with an SUV to follow!' announcement while they buy time to make everything work for a heavy SUV, but still, blast into the market with what people are buying. Jesus himself could come as an option on the next E300, and even when the reviews will be "Jesus rocks", sedan sales and values will continue to plummet.

Polestar 2 is a real EV instead of hybrid right? I want real competition to Tesla, and for "main stream price" that looks good.
yeah full EV. Dollars and performance match up with the Model 3. Reviews are the interior is better made (i can't comment on Tesla interiors although the layout I'm a fan of), but on the flip side Tesla has a strong mid-trip charging network that other companies will struggle with for a while (i think).
 

Beckwith

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Gomestar, agree. But they get the chassis down for the smaller sedan then build off that for the larger SUV. S/X 3/Y are on the same platforms, just with risers and a little fatter. The cars share 75% the same parts, but one of the main differences is the heat pump in the Y, which has been marveled as the engineering feat.
 

A Y

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all respect to Tesla (hello again Elon) for being the disruptor, but I’ve always been more interested in what the ‘real’ car companies would do in response to regain their position.
I thought this for a while too, but I think it's turning out that the big car companies can't or won't go outside of their traditional design boxes. The Model S has been out for almost 8 years now, and the Taycan is the closest thing the traditional companies can produce? And then earlier this year when all the German companies were supposed to produce Tesla-fighting crossovers, they all made the same 220ish-mile, slower vehicle, and with no charging infrastructure as well.

The most recent company I've seen that seems to be at the same level as Tesla as far as ideas go is Lucid. I'm not convinced Polestar brings anything new to the table.
 

Beckwith

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My opinion, which I have stated countless times here. You cannot easily replicate the charging network Tesla has created, just can't. Anyone can bring a car with sophisticated tech, but if you cannot charge it anywhere but home or some other network of shared chargers, it is more or less useless. I also think the battery tech is far ahead of anyone else, my neighbor with the Taycan has stated his car doesn't even come close for range. He is also not daily driving it, so a novelty to him and many other Taycan owners, who can charge at home and drive locally.
 

gomestar

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I'm not convinced Polestar brings anything new to the table.
I'm wondering if they're banking on the fact that they probably don't need to bring much new in. Just a legit option to the only other option for somebody looking to spend $60K.

Speaking of which did we ever get a $35K Model 3? Or is that model basically a golf cart but on paper Tesla starts at $35K?
 

clee1982

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I think even doing OTA update to the same degree as tesla would take some work, right now car maker works with too many supplier and way too many options. It made the update that much harder (software integration wise), might have to bring a lot more in house, not sure how expensive that would be though.

Though definitely agree charging infrastructure is a big hurdle for everyone else.
 

HRoi

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I thought this for a while too, but I think it's turning out that the big car companies can't or won't go outside of their traditional design boxes. The Model S has been out for almost 8 years now, and the Taycan is the closest thing the traditional companies can produce? And then earlier this year when all the German companies were supposed to produce Tesla-fighting crossovers, they all made the same 220ish-mile, slower vehicle, and with no charging infrastructure as well.

The most recent company I've seen that seems to be at the same level as Tesla as far as ideas go is Lucid. I'm not convinced Polestar brings anything new to the table.
You’re right, although 8 years is barely more than one development cycle for these guys. So maybe we’re a few years away still (which is an excellent chance for Tesla to build on its advantage). Although some companies like Nissan and BMW have absolutely no excuse since they’ve been in electric for enough time.

But I take your point that maybe the established automakers aren’t where you go to disrupt the whole paradigm again (maybe Toyota with hydrogen). But I think that even if Porsche makes “the Porsche of EV’s”, or Polestar makes “the Volvo of EV’s”, then there’s appeal in applying the tangible and intangible aspects of their brands to EV-dom.
 

A Y

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I also think the battery tech is far ahead of anyone else, my neighbor with the Taycan has stated his car doesn't even come close for range. He is also not daily driving it, so a novelty to him and many other Taycan owners, who can charge at home and drive locally.
Below is a pretty good analysis of the range differences between the Taycan and the Model S. It seems to depend on how each manufacture expects the car to be used: Porsche seems to be biased towards freeway driving, which would bring the range down a lot because you don't do a lot of regenerative braking. In C&D's 75MPH constant freeway driving the Porsche went 209 miles, while the Tesla went 222 miles, so they're not that far apart.


Speaking of which did we ever get a $35K Model 3? Or is that model basically a golf cart but on paper Tesla starts at $35K?
I think it was canceled? Maybe due to lack of orders or inability to deliver at that price?

I think even doing OTA update to the same degree as tesla would take some work, right now car maker works with too many supplier and way too many options.
GM is more or less doing their own OTA system (with some help from outside suppliers, but it's mostly them), but yeah there are a lot of suppliers too. Often the tech is so complicated that car companies can't really develop them on their own, so they depend on a lot of outside suppliers. Lucid however is taking a very different approach and seems to be doing an Apple-like vertical integration. We'll see if it works out for them, and I hope it does.

You’re right, although 8 years is barely more than one development cycle for these guys. So maybe we’re a few years away still (which is an excellent chance for Tesla to build on its advantage).
I think the 8-year cycle is part of the problem. Yes, it's very complicated to build a car, and these guys are designing the assembly line at the same time (compared to Tesla's seat-of-the-pents process), but that's still very slow.
 

clee1982

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well, you can't say they didn't slow fed you for like over a year...
 

Thrift Vader

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Re: Electrics v Hydrogen.
Over here, a lot of effort is being put into Hydrogen as the next fuel for the trucks and buses. As it's a lot more feasible than current battery tec.
It's hard to remember the relationships involved. But i think it's -
"Toyota owns Hino trucks. and is working on the Hydrogen tec. Hitatchi and Toshiba are involved with the battery and electrical tec."
As systems get more refined and compact, they can be offered in more mainstream car models. - test it large first.
There is plenty of room in a truck chassis, And removing the powertrain to start again will allow for a possible weight reduction.

In the case of refrigerated trucks, the electricity generated by the drive train could also power the refrigeration system.
Making it a seamless vehicle for the foods industry. Regular trucks would also benefit, as the add-ons can be not added. easy.

This is their game plan. I think it's a pretty good one. For supplying the Hydrogen?
Just like LPG. Setting up the infrastructure would not be hard. and from what i understand, hydrogen stops are being built along Japan's highways in preparation for the new truck releases. Filling time is much faster than charging a battery.

Nissan is doing more EV's. They just released a new SUV. which looks pretty good.
 

Jmm722

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I wonder if an aftermarket company will make a front fascia to break up the hideous grill. I’m sure there’s airflow issues and parking sensors hidden in its buck teeth, but there’s probably something someone can do.

It’s so much more hideous than I expected. The M4 looks just as ugly as the 8 series. It’s a generic looking Japanese/mustang abomination.

I hate all of the new BMW design language except for the X3 and X5
 

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