Cars We Drive!

[clee1982]

not sure why, but when people say GT car, the only thing pops into my head automatically is Aston Martin...

 

[Texasmade]

not sure why, but when people say GT car, the only thing pops into my head automatically is Aston Martin...

Same here. I always imagine the AM Vanquish with the V12 engine when people say GT cars.

 

[Thrift Vader]

I don’t think I understand what you’re saying, but I am also almost certain it is not the same as what I said.

Base Porsche is GT car.

 

[Dino944]

@Dino944 , I love your car! I also have a 348, but in the usual (boring?) tan on red. I'd take your color scheme in a heartbeat!

Thanks! Rumor was that the owner of the dealership also spec'd a Testarossa and a Mondial with same interior colors, but I've never seen any proof of that. The closest I've seen to this type of 2 tone interior was an '89 dark metallic green (Verde Scuro) 328GTB, which had dark brown leather and tan leather.

 

[brokencycle]

can't believe your wife not complain about GT3 and on top of that single piece carbon fiber seat..., mine would think M5 Comp is intolerable already...

If she can put up with Foo...

 

[nootje]

The GT3 is not a “GT” car in the long-distance road car sense. It is a “GT” in the endurance racing sense. The 911 race cars that Porsche fields in endurance racing are based on the GT3, as well as (obviously) the GT3 Cup cars.

My carbon fiber buckets are true, single-piece, racing-appropriate seats. They are super lightweight and function with harnesses.

View attachment 1393514



Looks good!

And the GT3 is based on what? The GT in prima forma, the regular 911.
Meaning you’re halfway between a GT based racing car and a GT, so arguably you’re neither at peak Porsche or it’s bottom?. Or is peak Porsche the car where you get the feeling you could race with the best, will still enjoying the trappings from a road legal car with some luxury?

I’m fine with anybody play pretend racing, we all have our toys to enjoy. Just don’t start explaining how this part is more racing oriented vs another so it’s less ‘real’ or not ‘meant’ to be on that car. It’s all meant to be on that car, which is build for the customers enjoyment. If the manufacturers build something for actual racing, or off roading, or whatever, it’s build for purpose and would be hell to use daily.

 

[TheFoo]

Base Porsche is GT car.

And the GT3 is based on what? The GT in prima forma, the regular 911.
Meaning you’re halfway between a GT based racing car and a GT, so arguably you’re neither at peak Porsche or it’s bottom?. Or is peak Porsche the car where you get the feeling you could race with the best, will still enjoying the trappings from a road legal car with some luxury?

I think the very en vogue mantra amongst car enthusiasts that the “911 has become a GT car” is downright silly. Yes, the car—particularly in 992 form—has gotten larger and more comfortable. However, performance, precision, and dynamics have only been improved. And all sports cars have gotten larger and more comfortable over the years. The biggest problem with the 991 and 992-generation cars is not becoming less of a sports car but losing some of the tactility and fear-near-the-limit that characterized previous generation models. This underlies legitimate criticism and lament with respect to driving fun on the road, but does not diminish sportiness.

Put another way, if the 911 is not a sports car anymore, is any other contemporary car? McLarens have even comfier rides and arguably less soul/charm, but cannot boast any material connection to racing; they are not a meaningful presence in endurance racing and the F1 cars have little to no direct relationship with the road cars. With the exception of its singular mid-engine models, Ferraris are all grand tourers to a fault (big, heavy, front-engined, and luxuriously equipped). At least the 911 still races and wins—it is literally sporting.

It’s more accurate to say that all sports cars have become much, much better at playing the grand tourer role when called upon. They have also all become less tactile and fun at lower speeds. The 911 is certainly part of this trend. But then, since inception, the 911 has always been designed as a more usable, everyday sports car.

The real story is how few down-the-fairway grand tourers still exist. It’s been Aston Martin’s focus, but even they are shifting toward sportier, mid-engine cars (if they don’t go bankrupt and become a crossover/SUV specialist first). Two-door Bentleys? The front-engined Ferraris mentioned above? The next-gen Mercedes SL is going to be AMG-engineered and more of a sports car, in-line with its roots. BMW 8-series? The Lexus LC? They have such a hard time selling those two, they might as well not exist. Pickings are quite slim.

I chose the GT3 because—of all the 991 cars aside from the R—it maintains the most pure, tactile, and theatric driving experience. The RS version notches up capability, but at the expense of street-legal looseness and a manual transmission. Is the 991.2 GT3 “peak” 911? Arguably. The case has been made by many, not just me. Chris Harris and Jonny Lieberman come to mind. Lots of big, macro trends conspire to make this so.

I’m fine with anybody play pretend racing, we all have our toys to enjoy. Just don’t start explaining how this part is more racing oriented vs another so it’s less ‘real’ or not ‘meant’ to be on that car. It’s all meant to be on that car, which is build for the customers enjoyment. If the manufacturers build something for actual racing, or off roading, or whatever, it’s build for purpose and would be hell to use daily.

Okay, now this is silly. What could be more of a ridiculous and useless sentiment than “it’s
all meant to be on that car.”

We have been talking about design. Design relates to function and purpose and identity. So, yes, it absolutely matters whether a car is more “race-oriented.” In such cases, one ought to make different aesthetic and design decisions than if specifying a luxury sedan or all-weather SUV.

 

[TheFoo]

not sure why, but when people say GT car, the only thing pops into my head automatically is Aston Martin...

Absolutely. Except for the new Vantage, all series-production Astons are deeply entrenched GT cars.

That said, and as mentioned above, the company is shifting toward sportier, mid-engine designs to stay competitive with Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, etc.

 

[TheFoo]

You can't let that car go to waste. To have a car like that, and on top of that a wife who buys you lessons on how to drive it... Don't let your wife find out, but that's what led to Patrick Dempsey's racing career, and ultimately, his divorce from his wife. She bought him racing lessons at some notable race school, he took it to heart, cut his teeth with the MX-5 (Miata) Cup series, then it escalated from there to an eventual class win at Le Mans. Every gentleman-racer's dream come true.

I'm at the lowest level of the sport. I started with autocrossing my '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R while in medical residency training (I wasn't making much money). When I became an attending physician, the first real car I bought myself was that '87 Porsche Carrera. It was the poster car I had growing up. I joined the PCA, and did a track day. First session was an instructor driving my car with me as passenger. I thought I already knew what my car could do, since I had autocrossed it a couple times. This instructor proceeded to scare the crap out of me in my own car! But I was also laughing the whole way!

I couldn't believe the late braking and early acceleration out of the turns that this 218 HP, 2800 lb car could achieve. Because of the rear engine layout, you get better 4 wheel braking with forward weight transfer to all 4 wheels (that's why 911 have such big rear brake rotors), and infinite rear wheel grip on acceleration. Boxer engine and torsion rod suspension all lower the center of gravity for more effect. That track day really opened my eyes. I was hooked, and did more PCA track days. Then took the performance driving course at the local track, which gave me access to more track days. Eventually it escalated into wheel-to-wheel racing first with Spec Miata, and now with my (other) vintage Alfa.

In summary, I strongly suggest taking your car to the track. That's where it shines. You'll have a blast, learn a ****-ton, build confidence, and earn credibility for owning that kind of car. On the other hand, I've given this same speech to some of my colleagues with fancy cars; a couple did the PCA track thing only to scare themselves out of going further. YMMV.

You are 1,000% correct.

That said, the engine shrieking to 9,000 rpm and rowing the rifle-bolt stick shift alone have made the car worth it to me already.

can't believe your wife not complain about GT3 and on top of that single piece carbon fiber seat..., mine would think M5 Comp is intolerable already...

I think our definition of comfort is different from most. Maybe because we are small? We like firm, supportive seats.

Nothing is worse to me than soft, bouncy suspensions and sinking into over-plush, over-cushioned seating.

 

[Dino944]

You are 1,000% correct.

That said, the engine shrieking to 9,000 rpm and rowing the rifle-bolt stick shift alone have made the car worth it to me already.

You should definitely do the Porsche driving experience when you have time. I have friends that have been to the Atlanta facility and they said it was fantastic! Mrs. Dino and I were going to go last year, but could not work out the time to go.

If you are actually thinking about tracking your own car, make sure you get "Track insurance." Most road car insurance policies specifically have coverage exclusion that apply to things like tracking a car, and you don't want to spend months or years fighting with an insurance company. Even the most experienced drivers sometimes have lose it on the track. A friend with something like over a decade of tracking his 993 stuffed his into a wall about 2 years ago. Thankfully, he had track insurance and they gave him a check and he was back into another 993 in 2 months. The majority of that time was spent searching for another 993 with the specs he wanted.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

Ferraris are all grand tourers to a fault (big, heavy, front-engined, and luxuriously equipped). At least the 911 still races and wins—it is literally sporting.

Careful with the broad generalizations. When you say “all” you are including this.

The Ferrari 488 Pista

The 488 GTE won the 2016 & 2019 Petit Le Mans.

Ferrari has pioneered and innovated much in racing, that other car companies (including Porsche) has used in both track and road cars to attain victory, so a little respect please. They still apply what they learn from Formula 1 and other racing divisions to their road cars, which they’ve been doing since the creation of Scuderia Ferrari.

 

[TheFoo]

Now, here is an all-leather interior done right in a car where it makes sense:

 

[TheFoo]

Careful with the broad generalizations. When you say “all” you are including this.

The Ferrari 488 Pista

View attachment 1393634

View attachment 1393635

The 488 GTE won the 2016 & 2019 Petit Le Mans. Ferrari has pioneered and innovated much in racing, that other car companies (including Porsche) has used in both track and road cars to attain victory, so a little respect please. They still apply what they learn from Formula 1 and other racing divisions to their road cars, which they’ve been doing since the creation of Scuderia Ferrari.

Seriously, do you read what I write or just automatically jump to defending anything Ferrari? It’s getting really old.

I explicitly qualified the statement for mid-engined Ferraris, like the 488:

With the exception of its singular mid-engine models, Ferraris are all grand tourers to a fault (big, heavy, front-engined, and luxuriously equipped).

Weird that you so specifically misquoted me.

 

[Thrift Vader]

I think the very en vogue mantra amongst car enthusiasts that the “911 has become a GT car” is downright silly. Yes, the car—particularly in 992 form—has gotten larger and more comfortable. However, performance, precision, and dynamics have only been improved. And all sports cars have gotten larger and more comfortable over the years. The biggest problem with the 991 and 992-generation cars is not becoming less of a sports car but losing some of the tactility and fear-near-the-limit that characterized previous generation models. This underlies legitimate criticism and lament with respect to driving fun on the road, but does not diminish sportiness.

Put another way, if the 911 is not a sports car anymore, is any other contemporary car? McLarens have even comfier rides and arguably less soul/charm, but cannot boast any material connection to racing; they are not a meaningful presence in endurance racing and the F1 cars have little to no direct relationship with the road cars. With the exception of its singular mid-engine models, Ferraris are all grand tourers to a fault (big, heavy, front-engined, and luxuriously equipped). At least the 911 still races and wins—it is literally sporting.

It’s more accurate to say that all sports cars have become much, much better at playing the grand tourer role when called upon. They have also all become less tactile and fun at lower speeds. The 911 is certainly part of this trend. But then, since inception, the 911 has always been designed as a more usable, everyday sports car.

The real story is how few down-the-fairway grand tourers still exist. It’s been Aston Martin’s focus, but even they are shifting toward sportier, mid-engine cars (if they don’t go bankrupt and become a crossover/SUV specialist first). Two-door Bentleys? The front-engined Ferraris mentioned above? The next-gen Mercedes SL is going to be AMG-engineered and more of a sports car, in-line with its roots. BMW 8-series? The Lexus LC? They have such a hard time selling those two, they might as well not exist. Pickings are quite slim.

I chose the GT3 because—of all the 991 cars aside from the R—it maintains the most pure, tactile, and theatric driving experience. The RS version notches up capability, but at the expense of street-legal looseness and a manual transmission. Is it “peak” 911? Arguably. The case has been made by many, not just me. Chris Harris and Jonny Lieberman come to mind. Lots of big, macro trends conspire to make this so.



Okay, now this is silly. What could be more of a ridiculous and useless sentiment than “it’s
all meant to be on that car.”

We have been talking about design. Design relates to function and purpose and identity. So, yes, it absolutely matters whether a car is more “race-oriented.” In such cases, one ought to make different aesthetic and design decisions than if specifying a luxury sedan or all-weather SUV.

A few days ago, a 997 Carrera 4 in metallic burgandy drove past me in traffic. it looked like a damn good "GT car".
2 door, luxury, and could eat miles in comfort. wherever you wanted to go.

And i'm not going to lie, it seemed as much a GT car as say, a 90's Toyota Soarer. just way more modern.

I think of a GT car as the car you and one other person go on a fun journey in. only needing 2-doors. but with everything else you would want from a car.

Best GT car right now? imho Lexus LC. or the base porsche.

Your car is basically a homologation model. cool, but i wouldn't personally own it. (mostly because my back is jacked up) but a true GT car would be my ideal show off car.

as would a modernized classic euro.

each to their own, there is no best car. only best for needs and wants.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

Seriously, do you read what I write or just automatically jump to defending anything Ferrari? I explicitly qualified the statement for mid-engined Ferraris, like the 488.

No actually I’m just realizing that this whole time thrift Vader hasn’t been the real Ferrari hater here. I was merely correcting an error put forth by yourself

Way to miss my point that Ferrari wins races that are based on road cars though