Cars We Drive!

[Dashing Chris]

So we have shoes and clothes thread why not one about cars we drive?

Here is mine---

I don't like to drive much but I am currently using Prius, seems I am a hybrid fan probably switch to model 3 soon!

 

[Dino944]

Does European Delivery discounts like MB's 7% off MSRP stack with other deals? I saw a leasehakr post where someone leased a $75k E450 Wagon with a sale price of <$60k. Adding the additional discounts to that would make that kind of price insane.

If a person does European delivery, I think it is more for the experience of it. I negotiated a discount of roughly 12.8% on my wife's MB, and that was on a new car that was ordered, not something on the showroom floor or a car from the previous model year. I had one friend who did the European delivery thing and he made a vacation of it and enjoyed touring the factory (BMW). I know another guy who said he would never do it again. He found it to be a big hassle and they screw up some sort of tax issue with the car coming in, I forget which car company it involved, but he said never again.

 

[brokencycle]

If a person does European delivery, I think it is more for the experience of it. I negotiated a discount of roughly 12.8% on my wife's MB, and that was on a new car that was ordered, not something on the showroom floor or a car from the previous model year. I had one friend who did the European delivery thing and he made a vacation of it and enjoyed touring the factory (BMW). I know another guy who said he would never do it again. He found it to be a big hassle and they screw up some sort of tax issue with the car coming in, I forget which car company it involved, but he said never again.

Makes sense. I want to know who these leasehackr people are that are getting 20%+ off.

 

[Dino944]

Makes sense. I want to know who these leasehackr people are that are getting 20%+ off.

Best I can guess is maybe they qualify for a fleet discount through an employer. When I was looking, the best I saw in terms of discounts on an MB, based on discounts posted on MBworld was about 16%, and I think that was on a leftover car. There were some dealers near me who wouldn't give more than 7-8% off on a car.

My discount was the dealers best deal plus a discount for being a member of the ABA.

 

[Piobaire]

Something to consider is the cost of financing for the dealership and any dealer incentives to move inventory. Most dealerships work on financing, and if they deliver a car within 30 days, they are usually not charged for financing. A car that's sat on the lot for several months has the added cost of carry for the dealership so ordering a car is actually able to get the buyer a better deal given the dealer's transactional costs are lower. That isn't to say there are not special circumstances, but in general, fresh off the truck equals a lower cost to the dealer so more deal making ability for the buyer.

 

[rocks]

Picked up a 2020 BMW M340I RWD recently, great car for a daily.

 

[Dino944]

Something to consider is the cost of financing for the dealership and any dealer incentives to move inventory. Most dealerships work on financing, and if they deliver a car within 30 days, they are usually not charged for financing. A car that's sat on the lot for several months has the added cost of carry for the dealership so ordering a car is actually able to get the buyer a better deal given the dealer's transactional costs are lower. That isn't to say there are not special circumstances, but in general, fresh off the truck equals a lower cost to the dealer so more deal making ability for the buyer.

Very true, although not all dealerships care about that or give a good discount based on that. One of the local Porsche dealers does the complete opposite. When I was shopping for a dealer to order our last Porsche from (981 Cayman S), not a GT car or something that dealers were typically selling for MSRP or more, I told the salesperson that I wanted to order a car. I know what the specs will be, and I asked "What kind of discount can I get?" I was promptly told, "Oh we only discount cars that are on the showroom floor. We don't discount cars that we have to order for a client." I said, "So I'm going to order a car, trade my current Porsche in, and give you a check, so its not sitting on your floor plan and costing you interest or insurance, its pure profit and you can't give me a discount?" Their reply, "No sir, we can't." I said, "No problem, its not a Porsche emergency." I had 2 other dealers willing to discount so I bought from the one that gave me both a better discount on a new car and a higher value for my trade.

I must admit it was amusing when 6 weeks later the dealer who refused to discount a car that had to be ordered, emailed to see if I was ready to order a car. I said,"Yes, but I already ordered through another dealer since you said you couldn't discount a car if I was ordering it rather than buying from your current inventory." Then I got a follow up email saying I misunderstood them. I said, "No there was no misunderstanding. English isn't my 4th language. You said you couldn't discount a car if I ordered one, you would only discount cars in your current inventory." Then I got a series of emails apologizing and asking me to consider them the next time I am ordering or purchasing a car. It was completely ridiculous.

 

[Dino944]

Picked up a 2020 BMW M340I RWD recently, great car for a daily.

Congrats and enjoy it!

 

[clee1982]

Picked up a 2020 BMW M340I RWD recently, great car for a daily.

Nice, though I probably would have gone for xDrive.

 

[rocks]

Don't need it, added weight, bad enough I can't get manual, plus I am in South Florida, AWD not needed.

 

[HRoi]

Does European Delivery discounts like MB's 7% off MSRP stack with other deals? I saw a leasehakr post where someone leased a $75k E450 Wagon with a sale price of <$60k. Adding the additional discounts to that would make that kind of price insane.

Yes, they should stack. The manufacturer has a normal invoice and an ED invoice price. Dealer margins and incentives remain the same. I suppose there could be incentives that are excluded but (a) I’ve never seen them and (b) I would want to see the exclusion stated on the manufacturer website (not the dealer) before I believe a word.

If a dealer claims otherwise, then they’re keeping some of the delta between normal and ED for themselves.

 

[brokencycle]

Yes, they should stack. The manufacturer has a normal invoice and an ED invoice price. Dealer margins and incentives remain the same. I suppose there could be incentives that are excluded but (a) I’ve never seen them and (b) I would want to see the exclusion stated on the manufacturer website (not the dealer) before I believe a word.

If a dealer claims otherwise, then they’re keeping some of the delta between normal and ED for themselves.

Thanks. I've been mostly looking to buy a certified used, but MB, as an example, has a good deal for being a USAA member.

Something to consider is the cost of financing for the dealership and any dealer incentives to move inventory. Most dealerships work on financing, and if they deliver a car within 30 days, they are usually not charged for financing. A car that's sat on the lot for several months has the added cost of carry for the dealership so ordering a car is actually able to get the buyer a better deal given the dealer's transactional costs are lower. That isn't to say there are not special circumstances, but in general, fresh off the truck equals a lower cost to the dealer so more deal making ability for the buyer.

I may have mentioned this, but a friend of mine is a manager at a chain of dealerships and they have a 2018 still on the lot. That they currently have listed for less than invoice, so I asked him if they were willing to go lower to get it off the lot seeing it is costing them money, and he's like "no, they don't finance their cars, so it isn't costing them anything, and they'll just keep holding it before they discount further.

Very true, although not all dealerships care about that or give a good discount based on that. One of the local Porsche dealers does the complete opposite. When I was shopping for a dealer to order our last Porsche from (981 Cayman S), not a GT car or something that dealers were typically selling for MSRP or more, I told the salesperson that I wanted to order a car. I know what the specs will be, and I asked "What kind of discount can I get?" I was promptly told, "Oh we only discount cars that are on the showroom floor. We don't discount cars that we have to order for a client." I said, "So I'm going to order a car, trade my current Porsche in, and give you a check, so its not sitting on your floor plan and costing you interest or insurance, its pure profit and you can't give me a discount?" Their reply, "No sir, we can't." I said, "No problem, its not a Porsche emergency." I had 2 other dealers willing to discount so I bought from the one that gave me both a better discount on a new car and a higher value for my trade.

I must admit it was amusing when 6 weeks later the dealer who refused to discount a car that had to be ordered, emailed to see if I was ready to order a car. I said,"Yes, but I already ordered through another dealer since you said you couldn't discount a car if I was ordering it rather than buying from your current inventory." Then I got a follow up email saying I misunderstood them. I said, "No there was no misunderstanding. English isn't my 4th language. You said you couldn't discount a car if I ordered one, you would only discount cars in your current inventory." Then I got a series of emails apologizing and asking me to consider them the next time I am ordering or purchasing a car. It was completely ridiculous.

Dealers are dumb. I know I mentioned the Toyota dealer suddenly changed their mind and offered to bring the car to me for a test drive, but they keep calling/emailing asking me when they can bring the car by even though I told them I bought from a dealer that did let me test drive.

My problem with car shopping is I hate it. I hate how they waste my time and play games. I don't mind negotiating, but I've had them keep my drivers license so I can't leave, etc. Although my favorite is where a dealer promised to beat any price I was given by another dealer, so I sent them a quote from another dealer where they were lower, and they're like "we will match but not beat."

On top of hating car shopping, I don't know what I want. I don't have any real needs for a car: I have a short commute, I don't need to haul anything ever, I almost never have anyone but my wife in the car, etc. There are features I want, and I care about TCO (so depreciation matters more than purchase price as an example) because I don't have unlimited money. So I waffle between a coupe, a sedan, and a wagon based on my subjective preferences on things like appearance.

I know I need to go do some test drives and narrow it down, but the almost universal bad experiences I have had with dealers just makes me dread it. There were a couple dealers in MN that I liked, and I haven't tried many down here, but it is mixed at best from my limited experience (and like a lot of mid sized cities, there are like two mega families that have every brand, so you're between one or the other).

 

[nootje]

Get a coupe, everybody should own one at least once in their lives before practical considerations take over. I just sold mine for a wagon for this exact reason, but it was a glorious 4 years of daily driving, vacations and road trips while I had it.

 

[clee1982]

Get a coupe, everybody should own one at least once in their lives before practical considerations take over. I just sold mine for a wagon for this exact reason, but it was a glorious 4 years of daily driving, vacations and road trips while I had it.

You should have told me BEFORE I got a kid..., though wife would never ok the car purchase in the first place if we didn’t have a kid to start with (she think owning a car in NYC is stupid, and I probably agree with her...)

 

[clee1982]

Don't need it, added weight, bad enough I can't get manual, plus I am in South Florida, AWD not needed.

Oh in FL definitely not, still pretty good traction all around? B58’s max torque is like barely off idle...