Cars We Drive!

[OtterMeanGreen]

What’s the last great NA, manual, RWD V12 car built? I think the last two offered for sale were the Ferrari 599 and the Aston Martin V12 Vantage, but i find both of them to be meh.

Heavy Aston's are kinda a joke and rather slow by comparison, beautiful to look at though. I've driven both NA Manual V12 variants side by side.

Funny I don't get "meh" out of this:

 

[brokencycle]

What claims? Straw men? The fact that you can't connect two dots doesn't make one a straw man.

You: Millennial aren't buying Porsche
Me: Current owners conflate opinion with fact (i.e. Maybe because Porsche owners are assholes that turn off non-owners to the brand)
You: You consider numbers subjective?
*jokes about your rant on colors*
You: Start name calling

How is the bolded not a straw man? You tried countering an argument I didn't make.

 

[HRoi]

Heavy Aston's are kinda a joke and rather slow by comparison, beautiful to look at though. I've driven both NA Manual V12 variants side by side.

Funny I don't get "meh" out of this:

It’s the looks. First V12 Ferrari that i found to be somewhat ugly, and it went downhill from there. IMO of course.

I guess that means peak V12 Ferrari for me is the 550/575 Maranello. With apologies of course to the F50 and Enzo, which are not on my list simply because i don’t think i’ll ever afford them

 

[UnFacconable]

What’s the last great NA, manual, RWD V12 car built? I think the last two offered for sale were the Ferrari 599 and the Aston Martin V12 Vantage, but i find both of them to be meh.

Maybe the 550 (EDIT: didn't see your response before I posted). I also like the way the 612 looks but it's got rear seats and we know you ain't got time for those.

It really depends on your definition of "great" though - are you looking for a brute to you can enjoy at WOT or do you want something more nimble (in which case I suppose you wouldn't be looking at front engine V-12s).

 

[HRoi]

Maybe the 550 (EDIT: didn't see your response before I posted). I also like the way the 612 looks but it's got rear seats and we know you ain't got time for those.

It really depends on your definition of "great" though - are you looking for a brute to you can enjoy at WOT or do you want something more nimble (in which case I suppose you wouldn't be looking at front engine V-12s).

I suppose it’s the brutish grand tourers we have to stick with. Because F50s and Zondas are purely a fantasy for most (all?) people here

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

It’s the looks. First V12 Ferrari that i found to be somewhat ugly, and it went downhill from there. IMO of course.

I guess that means peak V12 Ferrari for me is the 550/575 Maranello. With apologies of course to the F50 and Enzo, which are not on my list simply because i don’t think i’ll ever afford them

With Ferrari's elimination of the manual transmission, prices for one are slowly climbing back up. I'm not saying cars like the 550 or 575 are going to be in the same league as the F50, but they will be far out of reach for most buyers looking for something V12, NA, manual, and nearing 20 years old.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ferrari/575-maranello/1848069.html

 

[TheFoo]

You: Millennial aren't buying Porsche
Me: Current owners conflate opinion with fact (i.e. Maybe because Porsche owners are assholes that turn off non-owners to the brand)
You: You consider numbers subjective?
*jokes about your rant on colors*
You: Start name calling

How is the bolded not a straw man? You tried countering an argument I didn't make.

Your claim/argument was that I "conflate opinion with fact."

I had immediately prior presented curb weights for each generation of 911 since the 964 to show that popular opinions about how the car is changing are often wrong and don't comport with factual evidence.

By referring to those "numbers" I was showing that I did not conflate fact and opinion in that instance. If you have another example in mind, you are free to point it out.

 

[TheFoo]

With Ferrari's elimination of the manual transmission, prices for one are slowly climbing back up. I'm not saying cars like the 550 or 575 are going to be in the same league as the F50, but they will be far out of reach for most buyers looking for something V12, NA, manual, and nearing 20 years old.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ferrari/575-maranello/1848069.html

I think we're past where the prices are "slowly climbing back up." I think they are already there. Don't know if they will continue increasing, but people are clearly clamoring for any contemporary manual Ferrari they can get their hands on.

Not many folks make V12s. Ferrari is the usual suspect, but their contemporary V12 cars have all been grand tourers and thus less likely to be remembered particularly fondly by enthusiasts.

Other than Lambo, what other major manufacturer puts a V12 in a "serious" sports car? Hard time thinking of any, boutique makers like Pagani aside.

 

[HRoi]

So a quick Autotrader search, with the necessary filters set and an arbitrary price ceiling of $100k, shows a bunch of BMW 850i’s, various Astons Martins, and Ferrari 456 and 612’s.

And then....there’s these two gems. This is exactly how i get myself in trouble all the time.

Autotrader - page unavailable

www.autotrader.com

Autotrader - page unavailable

www.autotrader.com

Ok, the Testarossa is a dumb idea for many different reasons, but still....

 

[TheFoo]

McLaren F1 was RWD, manual, and had a mid-mounted naturally aspirated V12. Arguably greatest car ever put on the road. So, the question boils down to: anything remotely as great since 1998?

 

[TheFoo]

So a quick Autotrader search, with the necessary filters set and an arbitrary price ceiling of $100k, shows a bunch of BMW 850i’s, various Astons Martins, and Ferrari 456 and 612’s.

And then....there’s these two gems. This is exactly how i get myself in trouble all the time.

Autotrader - page unavailable

www.autotrader.com

Autotrader - page unavailable

www.autotrader.com

Ok, the Testarossa is a dumb idea for many different reasons, but still....

Yeah, I think the F1 takes it.

 

[HRoi]

****, i have to move the goalposts a bit. So what’s the last, greatest peak V12 car that a StyFo mediumtimer is likely to afford in the next 5 years?

 

[TheFoo]

****, i have to move the goalposts a bit. So what’s the last, greatest peak V12 car that a StyFo mediumtimer is likely to afford in the next 5 years?

I dunno. They're all kind of meh. BMW 8-series anyone?

If it were a truly awesome stick-shift sports car with a V12, medium-timer status ain't gonna cut it.

 

[OtterMeanGreen]

I think we're past where the prices are "slowly climbing back up." I think they are already there. Don't know if they will continue increasing, but people are clearly clamoring for any contemporary manual Ferrari they can get their hands on.

Not many folks make V12s. Ferrari is the usual suspect, but their contemporary V12 cars have all been grand tourers and thus less likely to be remembered particularly fondly by enthusiasts.

Other than Lambo, what other major manufacturer puts a V12 in a "serious" sports car? Hard time thinking of any, boutique makers like Pagani aside.

Last "serious" V12 I can think of is the Ferrari 599 GTO. That thing was an absolute beast of a car, with a sound that literally scared me each time I hit the engine start button. I thought it was very befitting and deserving to wear the GTO badge. I would rather have one of these then an F12 TDF, simply because its power I can use on the street and not just a track car on the weekends. Sure it's not a manual, which does take some points away, but the sound and ride is all there.

 

[Piobaire]

****, i have to move the goalposts a bit. So what’s the last, greatest peak V12 car that a StyFo mediumtimer is likely to afford in the next 5 years?

Phaeton.