- Dec 24, 2011
- Reaction score
Yes, I read what you wrote. Did you read what I wrote? My post didn't start with "Everyone knows." So try read reading the beginning of the post. You are the person who said "People have been complaining about the 911 becoming more grand tourer-like for years." Yet you say that is not so. Again, just like when you said silver is the worst color because of how it looks when it gets dirty...even when others who have owned silver cars and professional detailers websites disagree with your opinion.Every terrible argument starts with "Everyone knows . . ."
Did you even read what I wrote? Yes, the cars have undoubtedly gotten more comfortable and usable. However, they have also improved in performance, dynamics, precision, etc. Hence, to say that the 911 has become a grand touring car (which trade-off the latter virtues to benefit the former) is not really accurate. It's just become more capable all around--which is not surprising since they've been evolving the same basic formula for 50+ years. Everybody knows everybody has been complaining about the 911 becoming soft since the 911 ever was.
Not sure what being safer has to do with being less sporty. All cars, sports cars or not, are safer than prior generations. Moreover, all contemporary sports cars have silly options like matching seat belts and powered seats. Is the Ferrari 488 Pista less of a sports car because you can match your seat belts to your brake calipers and pick from nine different Alcantara seat insert colors? Come on.
I raised the matter of weight because it is an objective way of examining the issue:
Even as power has significantly increased from generation to generation, weight has actually stayed relatively flat over the last 30 years. This is despite the fact that "everyone knows" the 911 keeps getting heavier. I prefer facts over consensus.
- 964 Carrera: 3,030 lbs.
- 993 Carrera: 3,020 lbs.
- 996 Carrera: 2,910 lbs.
- 997 Carrera: 3,120 lbs.
- 991 Carrera: 3,040 lbs.
What is certainly true is that the 911 is a less visceral and tactile experience than before. But, again, you could say the same thing of any other sports car out there versus prior generations.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with making cars safer. Simply pointing out they weren't cars everyone could jump in and drive, and that today everyone's grandmother could drive a new 911. In becoming more usable day to day, the cars have become more grand tourers. When 996s were new, one of the reasons cited for the increase in size was to create a bit more room for the back seat. Hardly, adding to its sportiness.
As for the weight differences you cited, they are great on paper, and I'm sure someone like Walter Rohrl could tell the difference 200 lbs or less. He could probably even tell the difference of 100 lbs or less. But I'd guess an average buyer couldn't, and I highly doubt you could. Not to mention, people might then be adding 18 way power seats, nav systems, burmeister sound systems, ventilated seats, etc to add weight to modern cars, ...when options like that didn't exist for vintage cars. Also, the driving experience of those cars are vastly different in ways that go beyond weight, 0-60, or Ring times. Taking GT3s and GT2s out of the equation as those were not in production for the first 3 decades or so of 911 production...a basic 911 vs a 964 vs a 993 etc will all feel less plush and less grand touring-like than a 991. Sure you've driven current 991s, but how many vintage ones have you driven? Two, one, none? I've driven several vintage ones and I've several current 911s.
Nothing wrong with current 911s being more usable, and they are great cars...but to say that they haven't moved closer to being GT cars is nonsense.