Cars We Drive!

[M635Guy]

Alpine and Nakamichi were among the best units you could buy many years ago. Today, when I seen aftermarket radios in vehicles they sadly look like colorful junk.

Ferrari did use Pioneer in their early 80s Ferrari 512 Boxers, but as far as I know it was their only car model they put radios into (other models had no OEM radio). The head unit was to the right of the steering wheel, the graphic equalize to the left of the steering wheel.
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My old M635 has a Nakamichi tape unit that has all kinds of functions - some of them I have no idea what they do (e.g. Azimuth control)

 

[TheFoo]

Ok, so my build adds up to $128k on the configurator, but would truly be $140k because i think i would insist on PTS, which has an upcharge of $12k+. I would not agree to pay any ADM so it looks like my bottom line will be $140k plus fees and taxes.

I paid $108k for my 981 GT4 (MSRP deal, no ADM). I’ll be waiting to see the reviews, but i’m skeptical about whether this car is worth an additional $20k/20% (if we compare apples/apples, $32k with PTS) to me

I think this car makes the most sense kept pretty close to base. I'd add the bare minimum performance/light-weighting options (PCCBs, carbon fiber buckets), and skip the rest. Once you creep toward low-end GT3 prices, the appeal is gone for me.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

GT4 doesn't come in automatic, eww. How are us millennials supposed to drive it?

 

[TheFoo]

GT4 doesn't come in automatic, eww. How are us millennials supposed to drive it?

I don't think millenials buy Porsches. I'm not being facetious.

That said, they haven't ruled out an eventual roll-out of a PDK option.

 

[brokencycle]

I don't think millenials buy Porsches. I'm not being facetious.

That said, they haven't ruled out an eventual roll-out of a PDK option.

Maybe because of the onnixious gate keeping and conflating subjective opinions with objective fact by the existing ownership base is a turn off to the brand.

 

[Texasmade]

I don't think millenials buy Porsches. I'm not being facetious.

That said, they haven't ruled out an eventual roll-out of a PDK option.

Well supposedly, the Cayman and Boxster will get another model with the 6 cylinder engine outside of the GT lineup. Sales in the US have been abysmal for the 718

 

[TheFoo]

Maybe because of the onnixious gate keeping and conflating subjective opinions with objective fact by the existing ownership base is a turn off to the brand.

Lol do you consider numbers subjective? Or do you like to rest your notion of truth on what "everyone knows" as well?

Tell me what I'm conflating. I suspect that you don't understand or know enough to say. You just really, really want to believe I'm full of it.

Well supposedly, the Cayman and Boxster will get another model with the 6 cylinder engine outside of the GT lineup. Sales in the US have been abysmal for the 718

Yes, I've heard the same thing. I've also heard they may simply cancel the entire 718 line-up after this model cycle.

 

[UnFacconable]

Personally, I wish the 911s were smaller like the 911 G bodies or the 993s.

You need to get your eyes checked! These look about the same size to me.

 

[TheFoo]

You need to get your eyes checked! These look about the same size to me.

Did I say they haven't gotten bigger? How about some vintage versus modern Ferrari comparisons?

 

[otc]

The amount of options you can add to a Porsche is obnoxious. They make great cars, but what assholes they are nickle and diming for climate control and ****.

My car had like 3 packages to add: sunroof, executive package (headlights, heated seats), and transmission.

@TheFoo What color is your GT3?

On the flip side, there's something to be said for manufacturers still allowing customers to buy what they want.

I would have happily bought a few grand in extras on my GTI, but pretty much everything was pushed into different trim packages. Can't get dynamic suspension without a sunroof. No adaptive cruise control without leather seats...

The lighting package and performance package (bigger brakes, LSD, +10hp tune) were options at one point, but eventually just got rolled into the trim levels. I think the base model may still have a single option remaining (blind spot monitor/auto braking) and the 2nd tier may still have optional upgraded stereo.

 

[TheFoo]

On the flip side, there's something to be said for manufacturers still allowing customers to buy what they want.

I would have happily bought a few grand in extras on my GTI, but pretty much everything was pushed into different trim packages. Can't get adaptive suspension without a sunroof. No adaptive cruise control without leather seats...

The lighting package and performance package (bigger brakes, LSD, +10hp tune) were options at one point, but eventually just got rolled into the trim levels. I think the base model may still have a single option remaining (blind spot monitor/auto braking) and the 2nd tier may still have optional upgraded stereo.

Kind of agree. While I'd obviously rather pay less than more, I like being able to cherry pick what I want to include/exclude. I don't want auto-dimming mirrors forced on me.

These are expensive cars regardless, and hopefully one is looking at them for keeps--for such a buyer, incremental costs to get things just they way he wants are not an issue.

 

[HRoi]

I think the Spyder might be the more compelling of the two cars, actually. For $5k less than my GT4 config, i can get it with Burmester audio and the “spyder classic interior package”. Perhaps in GT silver which is handsome enough with that interior package and a red top to make me forgo PTS... ?

 

[TheFoo]

I think the Spyder might be the more compelling of the two cars, actually. For $5k less than my GT4 config, i can get it with Burmester audio and the “spyder classic package”

You may be right. The Spyder also looks better.

Seems like the enthusiast community is sort of "meh" on both cars, though. Minor power uptick paired with significant weight gain and price increase are not playing well. I think a lot of folks were (unrealistically) expecting a de-tuned GT3 engine. Of all the speculated motors, nobody suspected they'd bore out the current-gen Carrera 3.0 liter. It has zero racing provenance.

Still, I bet allocations are quickly disappearing and people will pay healthy ADMs.

 

[UnFacconable]

Did I say they haven't gotten bigger? How about some vintage versus modern Ferrari comparisons?

Weight isn't the only factor that impacts vehicle dynamics. I know you think it's the nurburgring of performance feel but there are other meaningful factors. The wheelbase grew significantly between 997 and 991 and P moved the engine forward a bit. The result is a more forgiving handling car with fewer demons. Obviously the move to EPS had an impact as well. The reason you got a GT3 was essentially to un-GT the modern 911 so I'm surprised you are quarreling.

 

[TheFoo]

Weight isn't the only factor that impacts vehicle dynamics. I know you think it's the nurburgring of performance feel but there are other meaningful factors. The wheelbase grew significantly between 997 and 991 and P moved the engine forward a bit. The result is a more forgiving handling car with fewer demons. Obviously the move to EPS had an impact as well. The reason you got a GT3 was essentially to un-GT the modern 911 so I'm surprised you are quarreling.

I did not say weight was the only factor. But it is the likeliest enemy of progress along other fronts that make a sports car a better sports car. Power has increased. Chassis are more rigid. Hence, it's not a surprise the cars are better-performing and better-handling than before. So, in what manner of speaking has the 911 become a worse or lesser "sports car"?

Well, I don't think anyone questions that they are more forgiving today. But does that diminish the sporting ability or experience of the car? It's not like BMW's situation, where they have sacrificed dynamics and precision for comfort and luxury. Also, how do you weigh any loss in rawness and purity against far superior precision, control, and ability?

If you want to think in a binary fashion ("sports car or GT car??? sports car or GT car??? sports car or GT car???), you will miss the nuance that the 911 has consistently improved across nearly all measure, not simply become more one thing than another.

What is certainly true--and which I've said again and again--is that the 911 has become less tactile and raw feeling. Hence, the appeal of the GT3. Also, as I also explained, it is a timing issue. I don't need a car. I could have bought the last-gen GT3, waited for the next one, or bought a completely different sports car. However, we are nearing the end of the naturally aspirated era. If my GT3 isn't the last one with a naturally aspirated engine, it is almost certainly the next to last.