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UnFacconable

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I remember the 1990's Nissan 300zx being pretty sweet. The twin turbo was more powerful than the NSX and I believe it had a better power to weight ratio. There were a few years there when those Japanese cars looked like the future and Porsche (and Jaguar, etc.) looked like they were running on fumes. Here's a comparison between the 300zx and the outgoing 944 turbo which conveys a sense of what I'm getting at. Now people might say the 300zx of that era was more of a GT but really what has the 911 become.

I'm also not exactly of the same mind with Foo on the new NSX in large part because I think that these high end sports cars are selling a fairy tale. I don't disagree that from a pure performance standpoint the NSX could be seen as a fail (although not as much as the i8 which I have harped on more than enough times in this thread). There are just so many conflicting factors - manual vs automatic, powertrain tractability and flexibility, etc. - that impact the analysis but seem to be left out depending on what the proponent is trying to achieve. For example, I would be surprised if Foo could hustle his manual GT3 around a track faster than he could a new NSX. I would be shocked if the difference in performance between the GT3 and NSX would be noticeable on the street. The main difference between the cars is in feel; the performance envelope difference for most drives is about as meaningful as the difference in depth ratings between the Rolex sub and seadweller. The nurburgring times are also apples to oranges because as far as I can tell he is quoting the official time for a new GT3 (which is like 13 seconds faster than the PDK GT3 that was available at the time the new NSX came out) against an unofficial NSX time. I don't believe there is an official ring time for the new NSX but happy to be proven wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the GT3 (and RS) aren't far superior cars for track rats than the NSX, that isn't in doubt. I think the fact that Porsche sells so many GT3s to people who aren't track rats proves that it's a bit silly to discuss ultimate performance as if it would be meaningful to the way the cars are used by their drivers. In large part it's symbolic.
 

clee1982

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i8 looks awesome though and that’s something actually resembled concept car and still look futuristic despite more than 6, 7 years since the concept car came out?
 

Dino944

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I remember the 1990's Nissan 300zx being pretty sweet. The twin turbo was more powerful than the NSX and I believe it had a better power to weight ratio. There were a few years there when those Japanese cars looked like the future and Porsche (and Jaguar, etc.) looked like they were running on fumes. Here's a comparison between the 300zx and the outgoing 944 turbo which conveys a sense of what I'm getting at. Now people might say the 300zx of that era was more of a GT but really what has the 911 become.

I'm also not exactly of the same mind with Foo on the new NSX in large part because I think that these high end sports cars are selling a fairy tale. I don't disagree that from a pure performance standpoint the NSX could be seen as a fail (although not as much as the i8 which I have harped on more than enough times in this thread). There are just so many conflicting factors - manual vs automatic, powertrain tractability and flexibility, etc. - that impact the analysis but seem to be left out depending on what the proponent is trying to achieve. For example, I would be surprised if Foo could hustle his manual GT3 around a track faster than he could a new NSX. I would be shocked if the difference in performance between the GT3 and NSX would be noticeable on the street. The main difference between the cars is in feel; the performance envelope difference for most drives is about as meaningful as the difference in depth ratings between the Rolex sub and seadweller. The nurburgring times are also apples to oranges because as far as I can tell he is quoting the official time for a new GT3 (which is like 13 seconds faster than the PDK GT3 that was available at the time the new NSX came out) against an unofficial NSX time. I don't believe there is an official ring time for the new NSX but happy to be proven wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the GT3 (and RS) aren't far superior cars for track rats than the NSX, that isn't in doubt. I think the fact that Porsche sells so many GT3s to people who aren't track rats proves that it's a bit silly to discuss ultimate performance as if it would be meaningful to the way the cars are used by their drivers. In large part it's symbolic.

The 300ZX Twin Turbo was a nice car...and certainly had a lot more new technology than the outgoing 944 Turbo. However, it was considerably heavier...about 480 lbs. The way a car handles and feels in corners is different when it is significantly heavier. Still, the 300ZX was quite a bargain considering its performance and that it cost significantly less than a 1989 944 Turbo or an NSX.

As for lap times, unless someone is Walter Rohrl, the times are mostly academic. Maybe a bit of my car can beat up your car. Most normal buyers/drivers don't have the training and experience on the track to really drive cars to their limits without potentially ending up on youtube video for wrecking their cars. In the end, some cars are more fun and enjoyable to drive than others, and that is what matters more to me than lap times.
 

HRoi

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It’s all e-pissing contests. Only 1% of these jackasses arguing Nurburgring times have even driven on the Nordschleife.

The big issue with ‘Ring times is that it pushes automakers to maximize their performance on that metric, and to make trade offs we might not want them to make. It’s all good when you’ve got GT3 RS duking it out with Huracan Performantes, because those are singular purpose cars...but when you’ve got dual track/street use cars like Giulia QF’s, M3’s and C63’s going after the same bragging rights...you end up with a complete package that is shittier overall
 

A Y

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The OG NSX was one of the benchmark cars for Gordon Murray when he designed the McLaren F1 road car. We know how that turned out.

Also besides the VW ID R's Pikes Peak record, the world record for the Nordschleife (and Spa) is held by the Porsche 919, which is a hybrid electric car. There is no question that electric drive is going to be faster than ICE alone.
 

ridethecliche

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I think the ZX had a bunch of reliability issues too.

Wasn't the 3000GT a pretty incredible car for its time too? I recall that it had rear steering as well.
 

Omega Male

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I am on my third set of P Zero inside 18K miles. Don't ask about the pads and rotors. 5800 lb, 580 hp minivan alternative. Buy stupid cars, pay stupid prices.
 

OtterMeanGreen

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The 300ZX Twin Turbo was a nice car...and certainly had a lot more new technology than the outgoing 944 Turbo. However, it was considerably heavier...about 480 lbs. The way a car handles and feels in corners is different when it is significantly heavier. Still, the 300ZX was quite a bargain considering its performance and that it cost significantly less than a 1989 944 Turbo or an NSX.

As for lap times, unless someone is Walter Rohrl, the times are mostly academic. Maybe a bit of my car can beat up your car. Most normal buyers/drivers don't have the training and experience on the track to really drive cars to their limits without potentially ending up on youtube video for wrecking their cars. In the end, some cars are more fun and enjoyable to drive than others, and that is what matters more to me than lap times.
I can speak as a matter of fact here that if given the option, I would gladly choose to drive on a tight mountain road then any racetrack in the world. I just find it more exhilarating. And I’ve tracked the Ferrari 458, 599’s and Scuderia’s during a couple of dealership track events. Saying that, I would gladly pick the former. In fact I got to do just that in the Ferrari 1987 328 GTS last year in the back roads of a quarry. No shoulder just a guardrail on either side, rev matching my downshifts, clipping the apex’s and exiting with precision. Man it made me feel alive. Didn’t even look at the speedo
 

ridethecliche

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I can speak as a matter of fact here that if given the option, I would gladly choose to drive on a tight mountain road then any racetrack in the world. I just find it more exhilarating. And I’ve tracked the Ferrari 458, 599’s and Scuderia’s during a couple of dealership track events. Saying that, I would gladly pick the former. In fact I got to do just that in the Ferrari 1987 328 GTS last year in the back roads of a quarry. No shoulder just a guardrail on either side, rev matching my downshifts, clipping the apex’s and exiting with precision. Man it made me feel alive. Didn’t even look at the speedo
I might have to come find you when I drive home to my parents in PA in the miata next time. Would be cool to see what you think of a car that came with 110 rwhp when it's pushing closer to 330 ;)
 

jet

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I don't understand how the japanese have bastardized so many of their prestigious cars over the years. Obviously I loved exotics as a kid but I also loved hondas for their humble yet appealing design language. Then there was the nsx, rx-7, supra, skyline and have fucked all of them save the skyline the least. These guys started doing acid in the late 90s or some shit because all of their design have been garbage since. Look at modern lexus and nissans, pure trash. Camrys have fake vented bumpers on them now wtf? The irony is that japanese are conservative by nature yet perhaps not in auto design any longer I don't know. I love everything about japanese culture except what they're cranking out these days. You're telling me there's no way to make a proper modern iteration design wise of a supra? Or an rx-7? Or an nsx? Look at the old datsun 280zs these are cult cars in LA along with old 510s and shit i used to see at the track. I saw a duckbill rx-7 yesterday that just plain looked good and better than anything else on the road next to it.

They carved their own niche in what the 80s and 90s yet managed to fuck everything all up. My brother's friend took me for a ride in his girlfriends new nsx at the time and I marveled at the mid engine noise that was seemingly being emitted from the rear speakers. No, that was the engine right. fucking. behind. me. When another friend took me for a ride in his then new carrera gt it was a nostalgic reminder of my first ride in an nsx. They don't make them like that anymore.
 

flipstah

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HRoi

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So do you guys like the styling? Personally I think I’d need to go straight to the aftermarket and make it look more like the GR concept. Maybe a less crazy wing and rear diffuser

52B82D82-5978-4714-8B37-A02CBF88F1A7.png

C39FD232-FA56-482C-8EFD-AC8889F20979.png


I’m not a fan of the current liberty walk trend of ‘wb all the things’ but this Supra is crying out to make someone make it look more over the top...
 

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