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clee1982

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I find that hard to believe, 4 motor will give you vehicle dynamic you could not possibly have before, and I imagine you can do something dumb in low speed with 4 motor, like turning in place 180 degree (i.e. like a tank?)
 

TheFoo

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I find that hard to believe, 4 motor will give you vehicle dynamic you could not possibly have before, and I imagine you can do something dumb in low speed with 4 motor, like turning in place 180 degree (i.e. like a tank?)
Maybe. But weight is weight. Four motors provides more power and more control—but that much more weight as well. Plus, as componentry gets heavier, you need more robust chassis designs to ensure structural integrity and crash safety, adding even more weight.

A company like McLaren knows how to hustle a car around the track and cannot be criticized for not having a handle on technology. Yet, when they designed the Senna to eclipse the P1 in track performance, they got rid of the batteries.

So, it’s not just Lamborghini. McLaren, Porsche, Ferrari, etc., all hold the same line on the subject.

If future electric cars ultimately do exceed current ICE cars in lateral agility, I suspect they won’t much resemble what you or I think of as a “car” to begin with.
 
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clee1982

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Well it’s all speculation at this point

I won’t be surprised it’s one of those you get worse before it gets better as i’m not aware any fundamental physical law that would cap development in improving energy density/weight on battery
 

culverwood

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Future electric cars will undoubtedly accelerate quicker in a straight line, but battery weight so severely limits lateral agility that it’s likely they won’t beat current track records. Lambo’s lead engineer thinks that we are currently seeing the fastest Nurburgring times we will ever see from production cars, precisely because the future is electric.
Pikes Peak VW I.D. R EV
 
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Thrift Vader

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The development of lithium ion batteries was pushed forward by an engineer at Sony.
Yoshio Nishi?
To improve the performance of mobile phones.
Currently work is on a solid state battery.

Electric cars powered by solid state batteries can go much further. And have more recharge cycles.

The future is a lithium air battery. At 1/3 the weight of current batteries.

-news on TV now...:dozingoff:

I still believe that the new generation of Supra's should have been built using Toyota's hydrogen technology.

Not super fast, but a unique concept, in a stylish package? That could be developed further by the aftermarket. And later updated versions.
 
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Dino944

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well, to me that sounds like GS vs. PP...? I kind get the point but to me NSX was never the dream car in any way
The NSX, was an interesting car, but never my dream car either. I can remember a Florida dealership that sold Ferrari, Lotus, and Aston Martin creating an ad (and then Porsche did something similar for their 964 ad), saying,"When you were growing up, did you really dream about owning a Honda, a Nissan, or a Mazda? We didn't think so." Then it had logos of photos and images of Ferraris, Aston Martins, and Lotus cars.

Here was Porsche's version of the ad which came out a bit later.




maybe my memory is faulting me, but the original NSX handles well, it's fast and light, BUT not particular powerful even by those days' standard, GTR was only "280" hp, but that's bs rating while NSX's engine being NA and VTEC push 8000 rpm can only realistic push that hard...
I think we've all become a bit spoiled in terms of what we consider powerful cars, because so many cars today make well over 300 HP. However, most sports cars back then weren't producing huge amounts of horsepower. In the 1990s, the NSX had a reasonable amount of power relative to offerings from Europe that were 100K or less. The 964/911 Carrera 2 and Carrera 4 only had 247 hp unless you went to a Turbo...which in 1991 had 315 hp (it took the later 3.6 to get 350 hp). Ferrari's 348 -stumpy mini- Testarossa with twitchy handling at high speeds, made 296 hp when first released. And Lotus's Turbo Esprit SE made 264 hp (but claimed to make up to 290 for brief sprints). So the NSX's horsepower was fine when it was released...although by the mid to late 90s it was outgunned by the then current offerings from a variety of other companies.

it's through BMW Manhattan, which I assume should be competent but I could be wrong..., the plus side of dealer install is I suppose I can go back and complain easier if something goes wrong?
You definitely do not want to assume the dealer will do a great install or use great products. 2 guys I know, decided to use the Porsche dealers where they bought their cars because it was cheaper than using the place with the best reputation in our region. Both cars are 911s (one is a GT3 RS)... and the workmanship done at 2 different dealers was terrible. It definitely, looks like amateur hour...and actually, one guy has made the dealership do the work again twice...and it still looks like sh*t. Do your homework, and at least check out some cars that have had PPF/clear bra done at the dealership and some cars at places with solid reputations in your area before deciding. However, in my experience, the PPF work done by my local MB, BMW, and Porsche dealers is just not up to the standards of the place that I use. For me it was worth it to spend a bit more and have it done correctly. Wishing you luck with whatever you decide.
 

ridethecliche

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That ad is kinda funny these days because as the 'fast and furious' generation is growing up, those japanese cars are EXACTLY what they dreamed of owning in their youth.

I think the original NSX was a halo car because it was mid engine, a pretty big detour for honda since they were a commuter car company taking on the giants, and because... Senna.

DID YOU GUYS FORGET ABOUT SENNA?!
I mean... he's part of the reason that car got the reputation that it did.
How can you forget about this?


It made honda a thing and they've continued doing some amazing things since.

I honestly think that the HP games are overrated since all these cars will go fast enough to put you in jail. The low down torque really matters because that's what counts for fun on the street. And the driving dynamics really count. That's where the money is. I'm sure the engine mods will show up pushing these cars to the 400-600 level soon enough. If they can handle strip or track abuse at that point it'll be clutch.

Also, the new miata is going to be doing some damage to the twins. The new motor updates are really keeping with the spirit of the car and I think that it should hit 200hp at the crank with some IHE mods. That puts it right up there in power with the twins while being a dynamically better car imho.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-mazda-mx-5-miata-engine-more-power
 

OtterMeanGreen

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That ad is kinda funny these days because as the 'fast and furious' generation is growing up, those japanese cars are EXACTLY what they dreamed of owning in their youth.

I think the original NSX was a halo car because it was mid engine, a pretty big detour for honda since they were a commuter car company taking on the giants, and because... Senna.

DID YOU GUYS FORGET ABOUT SENNA?!
I mean... he's part of the reason that car got the reputation that it did.
How can you forget about this?


It made honda a thing and they've continued doing some amazing things since.

I honestly think that the HP games are overrated since all these cars will go fast enough to put you in jail. The low down torque really matters because that's what counts for fun on the street. And the driving dynamics really count. That's where the money is. I'm sure the engine mods will show up pushing these cars to the 400-600 level soon enough. If they can handle strip or track abuse at that point it'll be clutch.

Also, the new miata is going to be doing some damage to the twins. The new motor updates are really keeping with the spirit of the car and I think that it should hit 200hp at the crank with some IHE mods. That puts it right up there in power with the twins while being a dynamically better car imho.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-mazda-mx-5-miata-engine-more-power

Great video, the NSX sure was an icon. it's amazing he can do all that in just loafers. I'm not even close to that in my Piloti's lol. Growing up I often saw it on my friends walls, can't say that about a lot of modern supercars these days. The days of the ICON are becoming rarer and rarer.

That video reminded me of this one. Such raw sound, power and dynamics. It's really no wonder why the Ferrari F40 is still a favorite among almost every automotive journalist out there.

 
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HRoi

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Dino, i assume that ad is from the early 90’s because it features a 964. I recently saw the mirror image of that ad, except it was for the current Corvette. Those GM dipshits - the one time i think they came up with a nice burn, and they totally ripped it off from Porsche!!
 

Dino944

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That ad is kinda funny these days because as the 'fast and furious' generation is growing up, those japanese cars are EXACTLY what they dreamed of owning in their youth.

I think the original NSX was a halo car because it was mid engine, a pretty big detour for honda since they were a commuter car company taking on the giants, and because... Senna.

DID YOU GUYS FORGET ABOUT SENNA?!
I mean... he's part of the reason that car got the reputation that it did.
How can you forget about this?


It made honda a thing and they've continued doing some amazing things since.

I honestly think that the HP games are overrated since all these cars will go fast enough to put you in jail. The low down torque really matters because that's what counts for fun on the street. And the driving dynamics really count. That's where the money is. I'm sure the engine mods will show up pushing these cars to the 400-600 level soon enough. If they can handle strip or track abuse at that point it'll be clutch.

Also, the new miata is going to be doing some damage to the twins. The new motor updates are really keeping with the spirit of the car and I think that it should hit 200hp at the crank with some IHE mods. That puts it right up there in power with the twins while being a dynamically better car imho.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-mazda-mx-5-miata-engine-more-power
Different cars mean different things to different generations. Yes, I remember Senna's involvement, but it didn't make me dream of owning one. I can recall when these cars were new. They were interesting looking and they were selling for over MSRP during the first year. Silver was the rarest color when these were new, and dealers around me were charging $80K for red, $90K for black, and $110K for silver. They offered great performance for their time, but during the first year they were hardly a bargain because if you wanted one they were well over list price. Still, they made Ferrari and Porsche take notice and improve their offerings. However, eventually the newness of the cars wore off, Ferrari, Porsche and Lotus improved their offerings, and NSXs were tough for dealers to move. I was surprised it remained in production for so long.

Yes, Fast N Furious has renewed interest in the NSX, and other vintage Japanese cars. I always think its great when a younger generation is interested in vintage cars, whether they are Japanese, American, or European cars. I love cars, and I can appreciate the effort people put into taking care of their cars. For me it is always fun seeing cars from when I was growing up or in school, meeting the owners, and hearing the stories about the cars and why the bought them, be it an air cooled 911, a Ferrari 512 BBi, or an NSX. But if I had room for one more car in my garage...it would be for something European.
 

Dino944

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Dino, i assume that ad is from the early 90’s because it features a 964. I recently saw the mirror image of that ad, except it was for the current Corvette. Those GM dipshits - the one time i think they came up with a nice burn, and they totally ripped it off from Porsche!!
Yes, that print ad was from the 1990s, when the 964s were still a current product. I haven't seen the Corvette one, but I will be sure to keep an eye out for it.
 

ridethecliche

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Yup, I think the most notable thing that the NSX did was to force other manufacturers to get their shit together because performance didn't have to come with obscene maintenance requirements if done right. I think that's what its remembered for as well.

A local ish guy autocrosses in his OG NSX and loves it.
 

clee1982

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FF was more Supra/GTR though? A bit NSX, then Evo (was there even WRX?), on the 2nd tier stuff, Eclipse showed up, don’t remember if something like 3000 GT was in it
 

jet

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I remember seeing the nsx-r in the road and track or one of those when it was first released in japan. That sparked my whole type r obsession back then man those red seats holy fuck. I eventually got a brand new type r crate motor from the dealer to put in my integra in the 90s. We torqued the head with complete valve train, r cams and all that. Paired with the R trans, skunk cam gears, dyno tuned with new ecu I used to spank e36 m3s and the like in a straight line.

FF is garbage, nobody was looking at nsxs then. Despise that whole series and the depictions. We used to have a legit underground street racing scene back then in compton, sylmar and ontario man shit was nuts then.
 

HRoi

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I am going to try to find this article i read about the Japanese auto industry in the 90’s. The synopsis was that a confluence of one-time events suddenly turned a war-ravaged, tiny island nation of Japan into the premier economy of the world. and Japanese industry found itself with all this money they NEEDED to spend. So they went nuts in trying to build the best cars in the world, some of which never saw the light of day when the bottom of the economy inevitably fell out.

And this is why the best cars from Japan are from that era. I for one didn’t truly appreciate how they delivered such cheap, reliable performance back then...and didn’t foresee the end either
 

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