Cars We Drive!

[HRoi]

and painted by hand doesn't mean it's better quality either. it's exactly the opposite. aint no artisan painter out there better than a robot

 

[HRoi]

ok, just to illustrate, here's a couple of pics of paint corrected, PPF'ed, and ceramic coated surfaces. the paint is 17 years old. i was happy with the result.

 

[brokencycle]

So what brand do you guys use for PPF?

 

[Dino944]

So what brand do you guys use for PPF?

I have Xpel on my cars, but it is important to keep in mind there are different quality levels of PPF even within some brands. I have the highest quality PPF that Xpel offers (I forget what it's called). I haven't researched PPF brands in over a year, but a friend of mine said that SunteK that is even clearer, but it hadn't been out long enough to see how durable it is over time.

 

[Dino944]

Orange peel on high end German cars was a well known joke in the 90’s, and all these “hand built” RR’s, Astons and Ferraris has notoriously ****** paints, especially when they were still using lacquers and/or single stage paint.

Back in the 80’s MB had the best paint and workmanship relative to other high end brands. Porsche wasn’t as good, but it was better than the Italians.

As far as the paint goes on old Ferraris there was a lot of orange peel, but there was a lot of orange peel on Porsches also. The real difference was Ferrari didn’t care about the details. If the inner edges of the wheel arches had drip marks or overspray from a black semigloss beltline that was ok with Ferrari, because people weren’t buying these car for their paint quality. Besides there waiting list and people were paying over MSRP, so why would the bother to do things better. And if anyone thought the paint quality at Ferrari was subpar... they only needed to look at Lamborghini’s paint work to feel better about the products leaving Maranello.


Overspray from the factory.

Drip marks from the factory.

 

[HRoi]

Yeah, but MB cheated by designing cars that were easier to paint - square designs, panels that were sectioned off, use of flat lower body cladding, etc

@brokencycle - I would pick the brand your installer recommends. It’s the one he’s the most familiar with and has the least chance of ******* up

 

[Dino944]

Yeah, but MB cheated by designing cars that were easier to paint - square designs, panels that were sectioned off, use of flat lower body cladding, etc

@brokencycle - I would pick the brand your installer recommends. It’s the one he’s the most familiar with and has the least chance of ******* up

It wasn't just paint work, MB built better overall cars than any other high end brand. BMW, Porsche, and other expensive brands just couldn't match their build quality.

@brokencycle As for PPF brands and installers, if one doesn't know of a highly recommended installer, one can often go on a brand's website to find local brand certified installers. Then go on regional subsections of car forums to see if there is one who is highly recommended in their area.

 

[brokencycle]

It is amazing to me that Ferrari and other high-end manufacturers haven't done more damage to their brands with stuff like that. I'm not losing sleep over a steering wheel stripe like Foo, but it seems to me that A. he's a core part of their customer base and B. People would reject blatant quality issues when spending $200k+ on a car.

Thanks for the info on the PPF: I don't need it for my current car, but I would definitely look at it for a future one.

 

[jcman311]

It is amazing to me that Ferrari and other high-end manufacturers haven't done more damage to their brands with stuff like that. I'm not losing sleep over a steering wheel stripe like Foo, but it seems to me that A. he's a core part of their customer base and B. People would reject blatant quality issues when spending $200k+ on a car.

Whats even more insane is the guys who restore cars and go into details to get things exact from the factory... including orange peel and overspray. They do research and even bring workers in to verify that overspray was in the correct spots, etc. Most of those cars go on to win competitions and are investments though... not really built to drive.

 

[otc]

Whats even more insane is the guys who restore cars and go into details to get things exact from the factory... including orange peel and overspray. They do research and even bring workers in to verify that overspray was in the correct spots, etc. Most of those cars go on to win competitions and are investments though... not really built to drive.

I'm sorry, but those guys? ******* weirdos.

 

[Dino944]

It is amazing to me that Ferrari and other high-end manufacturers haven't done more damage to their brands with stuff like that. I'm not losing sleep over a steering wheel stripe like Foo, but it seems to me that A. he's a core part of their customer base and B. People would reject blatant quality issues when spending $200k+ on a car.

The paint quality issues Hroi and I referenced are not issues today. While people lament the loss of true hand workmanship with high end cars, the truth is Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus and other high end car companies have improved with mechanization and robots doing painting and assembly. Now there is greater uniformity of paint application, body gaps, and the way the doors fit. Ferraris of the 50s regularly had doors that differed in dimensions and fit when comparing the drivers side and passenger sides of the cars.

The photos I posed were from a Ferrari built in 1989. As mentioned though, take a look at a Lamborghini, or dare I suggest a Lotus Esprit of the 1970s or 80s...and again the quality at Ferrari greatly exceeded those of Lotus and Lambo. That being said, its a well documented fact that Enzo Ferrari didn't really care to much about road car customers or their opinions. He only built road cars to finance his racing team. In addition, back in the day workers were not well paid and the factory was not the glamorous place we see in videos or photos today. Workers often resented the wealthy buyers of these cars. I've read stories about people in restoration shops disassembling vintage Ferraris from the 1950's and 60's and finding papers with "dirty pictures," and remnants of left over lunch items in door panels.

I've talked with shop techs and read articles in that said, it was considered a bit deal that the Ferrari 328 was the first Ferrari that didn't require techs to do all the quality control and sorting of the cars. Prior to that, 308s, Mondials, Boxers etc, when completed would just get sent to dealers...and it would be up to techs to try to find and fix all sorts of problems before delivering the cars to new owners. There wasn't much techs could do about sloppy paint and overspray.

As mentioned, Ferrari has never been known as a company that especially cared about its customers (unless maybe you were famous or you had a tremendous collection of their cars). In the 80s with demand regularly outstripping supply, long wait lists, and cars often selling for huge amounts over list price (sometimes nearly double MSRP), Ferrari had very little reason to change their ways.

It took them producing what has been described as the worst Ferrari ever built (even by former Ferrari boss and 348 owner Luca Di Montezemolo) the largely bland looking with twitchy handling 348, at a time when Acura introduced its original ground breaking NSX, to get Ferrari and Porsche (the 964 wasn't universally revered as it is today and sales of their other models had plummeted) to up their games in terms of quality, performance, and usability. Although, now people revere cars that were tough to drive and not very practical when new, for their overall experience and character...be it Porsche's 930, or vintage Lamborghinis, Ferraris and Astons.

Whats even more insane is the guys who restore cars and go into details to get things exact from the factory... including orange peel and overspray. They do research and even bring workers in to verify that overspray was in the correct spots, etc. Most of those cars go on to win competitions and are investments though... not really built to drive.

People can actually lose points at Concours events for having cars that were "Over restored," meaning the car was restored to a condition that is far better in terms of paint and build quality, than when it left the factory brand new. In addition to them wanting overspray and orange people also want cars that had metal rivets that would have been visible through the paint when the car was new, to be visible through the new paint of restored cars.

People that do those kinds of things generally have a money is no object budget. Ralph Lauren bought a Ferrari 250 SWB, and it had been fully restored by the previous buyer. When Ralph (or his team of mechanics) discovered something about the nose wasn't quite perfect, they didn't just send the car to have the metal work revised and have the car repainted, it went to one of the best restoration shops in the world, for another complete nut and bolt restoration that would take probably at least 2 years.

I'm sorry, but those guys? ******* weirdos.

Yes, they definitely go way beyond having a type A personality.

 

[TheFoo]

Couldn't resist. Last two available in Miami Blue. Seems Porsche may be discontinuing the line--perhaps due to Rimowa's acquisition by LVMH.

Interestingly, there is no Porsche premium. Similar luggage from Rimowa is priced similarly.

We already have a full set of top-of-the-line aluminum Topas luggage from Rimowa, but the carry-ons don't have handles on the top side like these do (crucial for easier lifting out of the frunk and lowering risk of scraping the front bumper or fenders).

 

[HRoi]

Couldn't resist. Last two available in Miami Blue. Seems Porsche may be discontinuing the line--perhaps due to Rimowa's acquisition by LVMH.

Interestingly, there is no Porsche premium. Similar luggage from Rimowa is priced similarly.

We already have a full set of top-of-the-line aluminum Topas luggage from Rimowa, but the carry-ons don't have handles on the top side like these do (crucial for easier lifting out of the frunk and lowering risk of scraping the front bumper or fenders).

View attachment 1054048

oh noes...discontinued? i'd promised wife that i would buy her this someday. this might force my hand.

request: are those the "PTS Ultralight Trolley"? if you have part numbers that would be even more awesome. i'm scrambling around and each site seems to call it something different.

 

[TheFoo]

oh noes...discontinued? i'd promised wife that i would buy her this someday. this might force my hand.

request: are those the "PTS Ultralight Trolley"? if you have part numbers that would be even more awesome. i'm scrambling around and each site seems to call it something different.

Yeah, it's confusing. I've seen "PTS Ultralight Trolley" and "PTS Ultralight Luggage" -- "PTS Ultralight" being the key term. The other kinds of hard-sided luggage they offer is "AluFrame," which appears to be an even older design and has been discontinued.

Don't have a part number, unfortunately.

 

[Thrift Vader]

My new car has been chosen!

Mrs Vader has approved. and it is spectacular.