Carmina Shoes - Definitive Thread (reviews, advice, sizing, etc...) - official thread.

[Vocans]

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I for one, feel very fortunate that this thread has not turned into a mutual appreciation society like the certain threads. Where any mention of other than glowing terms for the maker are shouted down. It’s one of the reasons I don’t purchase Alden rare shell, their customer base will accept anything, and this has been reflected in the two rare shell Alden products I’ve received. I do purchase Carmina rare shell, because Carmina isn’t thin skinned, and values customer feedback; both positive and negative. If folks want nothing but happy talk, head over to that thread. Here on this thread, we’re having honest discussion, after all that is the point of SF.

Just to be clear, I think you may have misinterpreted my point which wasn't that the thread should be whitewashed of criticism. I do, however, think there's a distinction to be made between constructive criticism and unproductive bashing and if we want to continue to receive the benefits Carmina has continued to give us on these forums it's important to focus on providing the former. You mention that Carmina is thick skinned and values customer feedback, which may very well be the case, but I'd point out that despite them continuing to read this thread, they've largely gone radio silent from a posting perspective.

Not sure how this turned into an Alden discussion but keep in mind that, like most other shoemakers with threads on SF, Alden isn't a paid affiliate on these forums and doesn't have any official presence here. As a result, the Alden thread isn't really an effective channel to provide feedback to the company. From my own personal (anecdotal) experience, I'd also add that some of the recent QC snafus I've seen posted in this thread in the past few weeks alone are worse than anything I've seen from Alden in the Alden thread and the two minor issues I've personally had with Aldens in the past were promptly fixed by the factory.

 

[stephenaf2003]

Just to be clear, I think you may have misinterpreted my point which wasn't that the thread should be whitewashed of criticism. I do, however, think there's a distinction to be made between constructive criticism and unproductive bashing and if we want to continue to receive the benefits Carmina has continued to give us on these forums it's important to focus on providing the former. You mention that Carmina is thick skinned and values customer feedback, which may very well be the case, but I'd point out that despite them continuing to read this thread, they've largely gone radio silent from a posting perspective.

Not sure how this turned into an Alden discussion but keep in mind that, like most other shoemakers with threads on SF, Alden isn't a paid affiliate on these forums and doesn't have any official presence here. As a result, the Alden thread isn't really an effective channel to provide feedback to the company. From my own personal (anecdotal) experience, I'd also add that some of the recent QC snafus I've seen posted in this thread in the past few weeks alone are worse than anything I've seen from Alden in the Alden thread and the two minor issues I've personally had with Aldens in the past were promptly fixed by the factory.

It’s not an Alden discussion at all, it was simply used as a good example of in worst cases boot lickers, in best cases simple fealty to the brand. Big Alden doesn’t have a presence on SF, their presence is wielded by their vendors who are very present.

At any rate, as I said I applaud those who voice their opinions, especially yours. I can’t determine what is acceptable criticism of a vendor, and don’t have any designs to place myself in that position. The idea that Carmina have gone radio silent is debatable. We tend to view the world through our own prisms, and I’m sure I have no illusions/desire of changing yours. Again, I have the feeling this thread will always have healthy debate. Yes, the credit goes to Carmina, but the credit also goes to the Carmina customers in this thread, who are open to real discussion, good and bad.

Sometimes, not everyone gets a trophy.

 

[ecworks]

It’s not an Alden discussion at all, it was simply used as a good example of in worst cases boot lickers, in best cases simple fealty to the brand. Big Alden doesn’t have a presence on SF, their presence is wielded by their vendors who are very present.

At any rate, as I said I applaud those who voice their opinions, especially yours. I can’t determine what is acceptable criticism of a vendor, and don’t have any designs to place myself in that position. The idea that Carmina have gone radio silent is debatable. We tend to view the world through our own prisms, and I’m sure I have no illusions/desire of changing yours. Again, I have the feeling this thread will always have healthy debate. Yes, the credit goes to Carmina, but the credit also goes to the Carmina customers in this thread, who are open to real discussion, good and bad.

Sometimes, not everyone gets a trophy.

Just scanned thru most of the posting here from 2019 and this year so far, overwhelmingly positive reviews and comments about Carmina the company and their products. Started to notice pattern of QC issues middle of last years postings.
Don't really understand some of the comments lately that seem to frame negative comments and observations about Carmina as hyper sensitive problematic high maintenance customers. The comments I've read and posted myself seem to be based on real issues with orders, backed up by photos. Every single time I've contacted Carmina about poor quality and workmanship in shoes I've purchased I've sent photos to document the conditions of the leather and workmanship they have reviewed the photographic evidence and agreed that that shoe did not meet up to their standards and offered to resolve the issue with a refund or re-order. Lets not forget the price point we're talking about, and they just recently raised their prices. (As did Alden)

 

[bamgrinus]

I never put any value judgement on the criticism or implied it was hyper-sensitive. Just pointed out that if I'm a business, I'd probably take note of how SF customers can change from heaping praise to piling on criticism pretty quickly. Every business is going to make mistakes sometimes, but seeing the number of people complaining here might give the false impression that most orders have problems. There's a saying that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data," which seems relevant to a lot of online discussions, since we really can't accurately gauge errors as a percentage.

Personally, I do think it's valuable to hear about the mistakes that happen, and no one should feel like they can't voice disappointment. But when the last dozen or so pages turn negative, it's also worth reminding ourselves that human nature is to be a lot more vocal about the things that go wrong than the things that go right. I hope Carmina takes the criticism the right way instead of taking it as a sign that the forum has turned against them. They could definitely tighten up their QC process, but it doesn't mean that they make crap shoes now or anything. I do hope they realize that most of us would be fine with our shoes taking a little longer if they come out right. I know I don't order MTO shoes because I'm in a rush to get them.

 

[vmss]

I never put any value judgement on the criticism or implied it was hyper-sensitive. Just pointed out that if I'm a business, I'd probably take note of how SF customers can change from heaping praise to piling on criticism pretty quickly. Every business is going to make mistakes sometimes, but seeing the number of people complaining here might give the false impression that most orders have problems. There's a saying that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data," which seems relevant to a lot of online discussions, since we really can't accurately gauge errors as a percentage.

Personally, I do think it's valuable to hear about the mistakes that happen, and no one should feel like they can't voice disappointment. But when the last dozen or so pages turn negative, it's also worth reminding ourselves that human nature is to be a lot more vocal about the things that go wrong than the things that go right. I hope Carmina takes the criticism the right way instead of taking it as a sign that the forum has turned against them. They could definitely tighten up their QC process, but it doesn't mean that they make crap shoes now or anything. I do hope they realize that most of us would be fine with our shoes taking a little longer if they come out right. I know I don't order MTO shoes because I'm in a rush to get them.

If it wasn't for Styleforum and Skoak Carmina wouldn't be as popular as they are now. Carmina build a reputation offering a good product in the mid range and above average QC during the past years; if their QC went down hills and doesn't exceed customers expectations; than they deserve to receive constructive criticism from their customers and especially from SF.
Because of SF they suddenly have customers buying multiple pairs of Carmina. Also having SF members travelling from all over the world to visit their brick & Mortar stores. Carmina pre 2010 was literally unknown in the US and thanks to SF they now can sell their products outside of Spain.
Without SF they won't be nowhere near where they are now and hopefully they know it.

 

[bamgrinus]

If it wasn't for Styleforum and Skoak Carmina wouldn't be as popular as rhey are now.

Agreed! Which is why I said it was a double-edged sword.

 

[Neville Southall]

If it wasn't for Styleforum and Skoak Carmina wouldn't be as popular as they are now. They build a reputation offering a good product in the mid range and above average QC during the past years so if there QC went down hills and doesn't exceed customers expectation than they deserve to receive constructive criticism from their customers and especially from SF.

God... remember when Skoak was cool? ?

 

[yengli]

I never put any value judgement on the criticism or implied it was hyper-sensitive. Just pointed out that if I'm a business, I'd probably take note of how SF customers can change from heaping praise to piling on criticism pretty quickly. Every business is going to make mistakes sometimes, but seeing the number of people complaining here might give the false impression that most orders have problems. There's a saying that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data," which seems relevant to a lot of online discussions, since we really can't accurately gauge errors as a percentage.

Personally, I do think it's valuable to hear about the mistakes that happen, and no one should feel like they can't voice disappointment. But when the last dozen or so pages turn negative, it's also worth reminding ourselves that human nature is to be a lot more vocal about the things that go wrong than the things that go right. I hope Carmina takes the criticism the right way instead of taking it as a sign that the forum has turned against them. They could definitely tighten up their QC process, but it doesn't mean that they make crap shoes now or anything. I do hope they realize that most of us would be fine with our shoes taking a little longer if they come out right. I know I don't order MTO shoes because I'm in a rush to get them.

Mistakes happen but I’ve yet to receive an order without errors since I began buying directly from carmina about 2 years ago. The good thing about carmina is that they always try to fix their errors. That is a good trademark!

 

[vmss]

God... remember when Skoak was cool? ?

Yes, most of my Carminas were bought through skoak. They had the coolest Carmina make ups at that time and was always excited for their Carminas spring/summer collection.

 

[Neville Southall]

Yes, most of my Carminas were bought through skoak. They had the coolest Carmina make ups at that time and was always excited for their Carminas spring/summer collection.

AAAHHHH... the good ‘ole days.

 

[stephenaf2003]

My whole point is, all this hand wringing about how precious Carmina’s feelings are, is...well really interesting...but wrong headed to my way of thinking.

All Carmina keeps doing is just coming back with even better ways of appealing to those of us that support their product. It certainly seems the company is taking it all in stride as, lose some, but with their great product, win most.There are certainly many who complain when it might seem to some of us, it’s nothing. As I go back over the dozen pages, I don’t see it has taken a turn for the worse. There is more good sprinkled in than bad. This discussion about a customers right to complain however, has dominated the forum. Which for me is fine, discussion in this case seems good to me.

But just to show how I personally feel about Carmina, there’s this....

and this.....

and this....

also this......

Carmina makes great shoes.

 

[madhat]

Without SF they won't be nowhere near where they are now and hopefully they know it.

I think we as a whole overestimate the importance of our ourselves and the groups we associate with.
I would bet Carmina US sales are a lot less dependant on SF members than you think. We're a small vocal minority and they go above and beyond to keep us excited, but I doubt they're be closing stores without us.

 

[Neville Southall]

My whole point is, all this hand wringing about how precious Carmina’s feelings are, is...well really interesting...but wrong headed to my way of thinking.

All Carmina keeps doing is just coming back with even better ways of appealing to those of us that support their product. It certainly seems the company is taking it all in stride as, lose some, but with their great product, win most.There are certainly many who complain when it might seem to some of us, it’s nothing. As I go back over the dozen pages, I don’t see it has taken a turn for the worse. There is more good sprinkled in than bad. This discussion about a customers right to complain however, has dominated the forum. Which for me is fine, discussion in this case seems good to me.

But just to show how I personally feel about Carmina, there’s this....
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and this..... View attachment 1344079

and this....

View attachment 1344082

also this......

View attachment 1344083

Carmina makes great shoes.

Y’all just WAIT until you see what @Carmina has cooking. It’s gonna blow your ******* minds.

 

[stephenaf2003]

I think we as a whole overestimate the importance of our ourselves and the groups we associate with.
I would bet Carmina US sales are a lot less dependant on SF members than you think. We're a small vocal minority and they go above and beyond to keep us excited, but I doubt they're be closing stores without us.

...this

 

[bamgrinus]

Yes, most of my Carminas were bought through skoak. They had the coolest Carmina make ups at that time and was always excited for their Carminas spring/summer collection.

Honestly it seemed to me like Skoak got a little bit of a bad shake when Carmina launched their own web site, set a minimum price for retailers, and brought most of their GMTOs in house. Understandable why they did it, but wouldn't be surprised if Skoak was left with some bad feelings, since they had done a lot of brand Evangelism for Carmina.