Carmina Shoes - Definitive Thread (reviews, advice, sizing, etc...) - official thread.

[trevorplease]

Speaking of issues. Does anyone want to take this off my hands for a good price? Carmina repaired it

natural shell ARTA last slippers size UK 8

View attachment 1318334 View attachment 1318336

So this is my issue with Carmina:

After about ~10 wears I noticed 3/4 sides of the tongues are tearing. They’re not willing to take the shoes back for even a partial refund with restocking fees etc.

They finally responded that they will be reinforcing the area. Does anyone know what reinforcing looks like? Is it more holes in the cordovan? Is it a clean fix or will it look sloppy?

What is making me angry in addition to the response time of like three months to get this sorted is that they are saying it’s not a correct fit and that’s why it tore not at all the fault of the design or craftsmanship.

So if it’s wrong - make the customer happy and let them refund or exchange for something that works but nope gotta pour more resources into a pair that is 99% likely to tear again.

Cordovan tears, and when cordovan tears it will just get worst. I’m pretty convinced that no fix short of replacing the upper will prevent the tongue area from ripping down the line.

So now I will be stuck with a pair I will be in fear of wearing and will never be able to enjoy and i will hate it. If I wear it and it tears again in another ten wears, will Carmina still support their craftsmanship and repair again and again? These ~$800 shoes are supposed to last longer than this.

This post turned out longer than expected but I just had to vent. This is ridiculous.

 

[007Bond]

I received my #4 MTO. the color is not similar to other #4s - much darker and flatter. can people post photos of their #4 MTOs for purposes of color comparison?

the shoes arrived with so many defects, these do not qualify as seconds.

not sure how Carmina is sending out all these defective MTOs. seems their internal quality control for MTOs is super low / non-existent

Here is my non MTO #4 just for your comp.

 

[DL120]

Speaking of issues. Does anyone want to take this off my hands for a good price? Carmina repaired it

natural shell ARTA last slippers size UK 8

View attachment 1343536 View attachment 1343537 View attachment 1343540

I’d love to but about a half size too big!
Let me see if they’ll relast them to a smaller size and I’ll get back to you.

pm how much you’re looking for and pics of the repair if you don’t mind

 

[Vocans]

Here is my non MTO #4 just for your comp.

View attachment 1343567

They look great. Could be the pool table top throwing me off but those almost look Rubi. Really interesting how much variation there was in color 4 in what was a pretty small run of shells. Would be interesting to see all of the pairs arranged in one album for comparison.

 

[ThinkDerm]

Seems like forum groups like this are comprised of a self selected demographic of enthusiasts who like hearing others opinions and giving their own opinions about topics, products, they are interested in.

Styleforum likely wouldn't exist without that pretty dependable dynamic. I've found comments regarding Carmina on this forum and thread pretty fair and reasonable but pointing out real issues. That is what I look for in forum discussion groups, movie reviews, restaurant reviews. You read enough posts with their points/counter points and you can pickup on whats really going on, trends, patterns.

Regarding Carmina, I have ordered 4 pairs of their shoes/boots over the past 2 years. Every single time there was a QC issue. I did admire the eventual resolution of each issue. The most noteworthy was the Massdrop from 2017 where they got the sizing wrong and offered everyone to keep their shoes at no charge. Very smart and generous on their part.

In that same time period I've ordered 1/2 dozen pairs of Aldens and had zero QC issues.

I'm conflicted with Carmina, so glad I stumbled across them a few years ago but I think they are going thru some fairly significant growing pains/hiring/training pains.

Hopefully Carmina is following this forum and is getting some useful feedback. Often times that is the most effective tool to initiate changes/improvements.

Agree with you here. This is styleforum and we are an interesting intersection of society - those with resources to buy these shoes and those with the appreciation of the finer details that we notice and look for in our purchases. We come here to discuss the good and bad. That's the point of SF.

I am a big Carmina fan. I have over 10 pairs. The pairs I have purchased in store were all perfect (granted I had the opportunity to inspect them). I have handled over 100 pairs of Carmina in various Carmina and other physical stores and they all appeared perfect. I had a pair of Carminas that were about 13 years old resoled and they came out essentially perfect and flawless and look new on the outside (they were well cared for before resoling).

Let me say this about Carmina. I really like the company and I like the people tremendously. They are warm and awesome. They have a track record of taking care of people and providing personal service and care.

I am in a customer service industry. I face "clients" day in and day out. As one of my clients told me yesterday: she said "I expect perfection from you" - and I agreed and said - I expect same from myself! (for me, most things have some level of acceptable flaws)

The MTOs I have received (three in the past four months) all seem to have flaws.

a) one would have been (mild) seconds quality (the penny slot on the penny loafer was misaligned by a bit - I never said anything and let it slide as the rest of the shoes were so wonderfully executed).

b) The second pair was my amaretto MTO. Excellently executed, but two concerns - excess edge dressing and other brown stains on uppers and secondly there was some weird large unsightly bulging fold in the cordovan. My threshold for shoes I pay full price for is: would I walk into a store and pay full price for shoes I receive by mail? If not, they are seconds in my book, and likely everyone else in here. I spoke with Carmina, told them it's not a big deal, and we worked something mild out (still pending) and moved on.

c) the third pair, "color #4," which I posted here since someone requested I post had several flaws. if they weren't cordovan, I would think these were made of scrap leather (I've seen scrap leather look better). Firstly, the color is not #4. The color I received is some shade of dark brown. There is a six inch long fold on the vamp that appears the leather was rolled and flattened flat causing a permanent crease in the cordovan prior to being used and then simply unfolded and used to make shoes irrespective of the obvious major flaw. Additionally, there are random other issues that make the shoes below seconds that do not need to be discussed here. The positives - the build aside from the leather flaws are pretty. The styling is fantastic. Carmina offered a remake, which I accepted, but they never answered if they have any color #4 cordovan remaining. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, as I really would love this pair done to the high level Carmina can make to!

They look great. Could be the pool table top throwing me off but those almost look Rubi. Really interesting how much variation there was in color 4 in what was a pretty small run of shells. Would be interesting to see all of the pairs arranged in one album for comparison.

Agree here, would be nice to see all the col #4 in one place. None really look like Alden #4 color, which is interesting...

 

[Betelgeuse]

Dubmonks!

 

[Vocans]

Agree with you here. This is styleforum and we are an interesting intersection of society - those with resources to buy these shoes and those with the appreciation of the finer details that we notice and look for in our purchases. We come here to discuss the good and bad. That's the point of SF.

I am a big Carmina fan. I have over 10 pairs. The pairs I have purchased in store were all perfect (granted I had the opportunity to inspect them). I have handled over 100 pairs of Carmina in various Carmina and other physical stores and they all appeared perfect. I had a pair of Carminas that were about 13 years old resoled and they came out essentially perfect and flawless and look new on the outside (they were well cared for before resoling).

Let me say this about Carmina. I really like the company and I like the people tremendously. They are warm and awesome. They have a track record of taking care of people and providing personal service and care.

I am in a customer service industry. I face "clients" day in and day out. As one of my clients told me yesterday: she said "I expect perfection from you" - and I agreed and said - I expect same from myself! (for me, most things have some level of acceptable flaws)

The MTOs I have received (three in the past four months) all seem to have flaws.

a) one would have been (mild) seconds quality (the penny slot on the penny loafer was misaligned by a bit - I never said anything and let it slide as the rest of the shoes were so wonderfully executed).

b) The second pair was my amaretto MTO. Excellently executed, but two concerns - excess edge dressing and other brown stains on uppers and secondly there was some weird large unsightly bulging fold in the cordovan. My threshold for shoes I pay full price for is: would I walk into a store and pay full price for shoes I receive by mail? If not, they are seconds in my book, and likely everyone else in here. I spoke with Carmina, told them it's not a big deal, and we worked something mild out (still pending) and moved on.

c) the third pair, "color #4," which I posted here since someone requested I post had several flaws. if they weren't cordovan, I would think these were made of scrap leather (I've seen scrap leather look better). Firstly, the color is not #4. The color I received is some shade of dark brown. There is a six inch long fold on the vamp that appears the leather was rolled and flattened flat causing a permanent crease in the cordovan prior to being used and then simply unfolded and used to make shoes irrespective of the obvious major flaw. Additionally, there are random other issues that make the shoes below seconds that do not need to be discussed here. The positives - the build aside from the leather flaws are pretty. The styling is fantastic. Carmina offered a remake, which I accepted, but they never answered if they have any color #4 cordovan remaining. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, as I really would love this pair done to the high level Carmina can make to!


Agree here, would be nice to see all the col #4 in one place. None really look like Alden #4 color, which is interesting...

Keep in mind that Alden hasn't used Color 4 in several years. I believe the Color 4 wingtip boots and captoes you previously posted were run by TSM around 2012, for example. Even when new it wouldn't be surprising that the shade has shifted some from current Color 4 but those pairs at this point have roughly 8 years of wear (albeit very light wear).

 

[stephenaf2003]

No, he means that some Style Forum members expect to expect Ferrari F60 America for the price of Toyota Corolla.

I don't think anyone is saying that but I think it can be handled between you and Carmina's CS without necessarily resorting to asking whether Carmina has any quality control on their public affiliate thread.

I for one, feel very fortunate that this thread has not turned into a mutual appreciation society like the certain threads. Where any mention of other than glowing terms for the maker are shouted down. It’s one of the reasons I don’t purchase Alden rare shell, their customer base will accept anything, and this has been reflected in the two rare shell Alden products I’ve received. I do purchase Carmina rare shell, because Carmina isn’t thin skinned, and values customer feedback; both positive and negative. If folks want nothing but happy talk, head over to that thread. Here on this thread, we’re having honest discussion, after all that is the point of SF.

 

[DL120]

View attachment 1343870

I for one, feel very fortunate that this thread has not turned into a mutual appreciation society like the certain threads. Where any mention of other than glowing terms for the maker are shouted down. It’s one of the reasons I don’t purchase Alden rare shell, their customer base will accept anything, and this has been reflected in the two rare shell Alden products I’ve received. I do purchase Carmina rare shell, because Carmina isn’t thin skinned, and values customer feedback; both positive and negative. If folks want nothing but happy talk, head over to that thread. Here on this thread, we’re having honest discussion, after all that is the point of SF.

Agreed and well said! On my pair of color 4 boots (well mine now lol), there was a very small fold on the rear quarter around the ankle. The rest of the boot is flawless, and once I bent my ankle the shaft began molding as expected and it’s basically resolved itself as I anticipated. So nothing I was or am concerned about, but also not afraid to admit they weren’t perfect.

I do have a general question but related, why don’t they wait to create the tongue lace loop until the tongue is stitched and the boot is lasted. On every pair of carmina boots (and Enzo, meermin, every maker practically besides Zonkey Boot) I have the tongue lace loop is centered on the tongue if it were laying flat, but once lasted and on the foot, it always ends up to the side. And then it either is awkward to use, looks like it may rip or just doesn’t actually perform the function. Any other experience or observations on this?

I’m sending down to Jim McFarland now for toe plates, so I may just have him make a small stitch on the inner side of either tongue to keep it centered so I can just avoid them.

 

[laufer]

View attachment 1343870

I for one, feel very fortunate that this thread has not turned into a mutual appreciation society like the certain threads. Where any mention of other than glowing terms for the maker are shouted down. It’s one of the reasons I don’t purchase Alden rare shell, their customer base will accept anything, and this has been reflected in the two rare shell Alden products I’ve received. I do purchase Carmina rare shell, because Carmina isn’t thin skinned, and values customer feedback; both positive and negative. If folks want nothing but happy talk, head over to that thread. Here on this thread, we’re having honest discussion, after all that is the point of SF.

You have a point regarding the mutual appreciation society threads, those threads annoy me too. However, what's an honest discussion is a matter of debate. I am not visiting this thread as often as I used because I am not in the mood to read about "laces being too long" or " HELP, my Carmina shoe bags were not made by virgins hands"

There comes a point when every business must decide whether some customers are too much of the trouble. So I hope Carmina decided that on case by case basis instead of doing punishing all customers, for example, discontinuing their yearly MTO fee-free program or limiting the number of their offerings etc.

Carmina offer at least 15 different last configurations, tens of different shoe/boot models, countless leather and soles. I am very grateful to Carmina.

 

[djdanniedee]

Carmina two eyelid derby in shell cordovan. Don't wear them as much as I'd like due to the 2 eyelids being hard to get a good fit.


Carmina CXL frankenstitch jumper boot for the crazy Canadian weather today. I usually just give them a coat of Reno and then a quick splash of wax but this time used the mirror shine to see how'd it look. While the shine came out nice it definitely did not match the profile of the boots and a quick walk from the parking lot to train collected salt all over and ruined the shine!

 

[stephenaf2003]

You have a point regarding the mutual appreciation society threads, those threads annoy me too. However, what's an honest discussion is a matter of debate. I am not visiting this thread as often as I used because I am not in the mood to read about "laces being too long" or " HELP, my Carmina shoe bags were not made by virgins hands"

There comes a point when every business must decide whether some customers are too much of the trouble. So I hope Carmina decided that on case by case basis instead of doing punishing all customers, for example, discontinuing their yearly MTO fee-free program or limiting the number of their offerings etc.

Carmina offer at least 15 different last configurations, tens of different shoe/boot models, countless leather and soles. I am very grateful to Carmina.

I applaud your willingness to voice your stand on the matter.

The relationship Carmina has with its customers are beneficial to both. We give them a nice chunk of money, and they produce a product for us. Giving feedback to the company on that product is the customers prerogative. I approach all the same; I give company’s praise at times, criticisms at other times. Some think kissing up to a company will put them in more favor, perhaps they are correct. I feel honest feedback on a product results in a better product, if the company is capable of it. Some issues are going to really perturb some customers, and they will react in a myriad of ways. If a company decides they don’t want the money from a customer anymore they are well within their rights. I for one would not fault them; but I’ll never pull punches just so they will be nicer to me.

For me Carmina is an amazing company, because they do value ALL feedback. It’s one of the reasons I really support them....with my wallet.

 

[Neville Southall]

I applaud your willingness to voice your stand on the matter.

The relationship Carmina has with its customers are beneficial to both. We give them a nice chunk of money, and they produce a product for us. Giving feedback to the company on that product is the customers prerogative. I approach all the same; I give company’s praise at times, criticisms at other times. Some think kissing up to a company will put them in more favor, perhaps they are correct. I feel honest feedback on a product results in a better product, if the company is capable of it. Some issues are going to really perturb some customers, and they will react in a myriad of ways. If a company decides they don’t want the money from a customer anymore they are well within their rights. I for one would not fault them; but I’ll never pull punches just so they will be nicer to me.

For me Carmina is an amazing company, because they do value ALL feedback. It’s one of the reasons I really support them....with my wallet.

“nice chunk of money” = UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR. ?

 

[stephenaf2003]

Agreed and well said! On my pair of color 4 boots (well mine now lol), there was a very small fold on the rear quarter around the ankle. The rest of the boot is flawless, and once I bent my ankle the shaft began molding as expected and it’s basically resolved itself as I anticipated. So nothing I was or am concerned about, but also not afraid to admit they weren’t perfect.

I do have a general question but related, why don’t they wait to create the tongue lace loop until the tongue is stitched and the boot is lasted. On every pair of carmina boots (and Enzo, meermin, every maker practically besides Zonkey Boot) I have the tongue lace loop is centered on the tongue if it were laying flat, but once lasted and on the foot, it always ends up to the side. And then it either is awkward to use, looks like it may rip or just doesn’t actually perform the function. Any other experience or observations on this?

I’m sending down to Jim McFarland now for toe plates, so I may just have him make a small stitch on the inner side of either tongue to keep it centered so I can just avoid them.

View attachment 1343872
View attachment 1343873

If your feeling really handy, you can try this which was posted by another member. My apologies to that member for not remembering their name. Great idea they have though.


Pinning Rouge Boot Tongue in place



Pinning the tongue is a 5 minute job if you have the right tools.

It is a 15 minute job if you dont. But it is easy. The critical thing is to have nylon thread instead if the cotton thread you usually find in sewing kits.

Doesnt have to be thick...just strong. You will need some pliers to push and pull through the leather. Did my tankers just now....first pic is before, last is after. I went in and out on the original seam and tied the knot between the shoe and the tongue



Attachments

 

[Neville Southall]

I like this boot.