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George Mason

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Well, happy wife happy life to you guys, but it's a bit presumptuous to call anyone who doesn't go over their shoes with the Hubble space telescope a sheep. For me it's just a matter of practicality: if it's a gash or a broken speedhook or a blatant discoloration, then yea that's fair, but I'm not going to waste my time and Carmina's over imperfections that I will accumulate anyway. As a matter of principle, would I expect something more polished at $450? Maybe, maybe not. Is it going to make a difference after the first few wears? No.

I guess the bigger matter is, I generally don't feel the need to put my "nice" things under excessive scrutiny. I think Carminas are worth ~$500 because their designs are nice and the Rain last is comfortable, which is all a shoe needs to be. It doesn't add or subtract value to me how well or not they pass QC when inspected with a magnifying glass. I think this attitude came from a few years ago, when AE and others tried to market their $350 shoes to people used to paying $90 for Johnston and Murphy, and presented their wares as more than what they are. "They're investments!" No, they're feet armor made from byproducts of the meat industry.

You can call this a lowering of expectations, but I think it's more like, realistic expectations that allow you to just enjoy your shoes without letting them become a distraction in your life.

BTW!! My own MTO came today after an envious week of hearing about you guys getting your loot early! True balmoral style oxford (with the long vamp), navy museum calf, Dainite soles. Probably they're full of flaws and I'm a fool for not sending a DM to Sara and then returning them, but (un)fortunately I'm too blind to see all these defects that are obviously there, so I'm just going to wear them tomorrow.
Everyone who has commented on this poor woman’s shoes has recognized the multitude of flaws in them. I own three pairs of Carmina boots, none of which have such shoddy construction. If they did, they would’ve been returned. Not one iota of your post addresses the specifics of this particular case.

If, after reviewing those pictures and reading subsequent comments, you believe this to be a normal occurrence in the course of purchasing $400 shoes, then there’s nothing to discuss.

I can assure you that it’s possible to spend less, the same, or more on quality footwear and receive a far better product than the shoes in question. If your shoe collection resembles those shoes, then you’ve been throwing your money away.
 

dave_rawitat

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The motto of my life is always "Happy Wife, Happy Life".

I buy shoes for my wife every now and then.
And when I do, I always look at them in finer details than my own.

My wife, well, she has no special interests in shoes whatsoever. She stopped buying her own shoes long ago since it's now my job, and she wouldn't look at any shoes in fine details either .... She doesn't really care. She never has any high-end shoes before we got married ... before marriage, for her, shoes come and go, mostly fashion and disposable .... but, with that being said, I would expect no less than the best (in respective price bracket, of course) for her.

My wife doesn't really care for her shoes ... doesn't mean that I won't.

In short: There are things I could tolerate for myself, but not for my wife ... even though she wouldn't notice it herself :)

One of the Carmina pairs that she likes very much :)

DSC_5184.jpg
 
Last edited:

007Bond

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Everyone who has commented on this poor woman’s shoes has recognized the multitude of flaws in them. I own three pairs of Carmina boots, none of which have such shoddy construction. If they did, they would’ve been returned. Not one iota of your post addresses the specifics of this particular case.

If, after reviewing those pictures and reading subsequent comments, you believe this to be a normal occurrence in the course of purchasing $400 shoes, then there’s nothing to discuss.

I can assure you that it’s possible to spend less, the same, or more on quality footwear and receive a far better product than the shoes in question. If your shoe collection resembles those shoes, then you’ve been throwing your money away.
Well said bravo!!!!
"I can assure you that it’s possible to spend less, the same, or more on quality footwear and receive a far better product than the shoes in question. If your shoe collection resembles those shoes, then you’ve been throwing your money away."

Also here is a good video to show the diff between shoes of various cost and what to expect
Kirby is ok and notice none of the shoes in this video have a single issue (and that is expected).



Well, happy wife happy life to you guys, but it's a bit presumptuous to call anyone who doesn't go over their shoes with the Hubble space telescope a sheep. For me it's just a matter of practicality: if it's a gash or a broken speedhook or a blatant discoloration, then yea that's fair, but I'm not going to waste my time and Carmina's over imperfections that I will accumulate anyway. As a matter of principle, would I expect something more polished at $450? Maybe, maybe not. Is it going to make a difference after the first few wears? No.

I guess the bigger matter is, I generally don't feel the need to put my "nice" things under excessive scrutiny. I think Carminas are worth ~$500 because their designs are nice and the Rain last is comfortable, which is all a shoe needs to be. It doesn't add or subtract value to me how well or not they pass QC when inspected with a magnifying glass. I think this attitude came from a few years ago, when AE and others tried to market their $350 shoes to people used to paying $90 for Johnston and Murphy, and presented their wares as more than what they are. "They're investments!" No, they're feet armor made from byproducts of the meat industry.

You can call this a lowering of expectations, but I think it's more like, realistic expectations that allow you to just enjoy your shoes without letting them become a distraction in your life.
If you want to buy shoes of this caliber and cost and accept them with such blazing QC issues that's yours to do.

But you missed the point and some of the issue will affect the longevity of the shoes. Construction issues like stitching/glueing can become issues in a short time.

But anyways let's compare this to something else maybe a car. If you purchased a custom ordered Porsche 911 and upon delivery there was a scratch in the front fender, the paint on the rear quarter did not quite match the rest of the car, the drivers door handle was a little loose, a few of the interior trim pieces were loose, when you started the car it made an odd noise, as you test drove it there was a rattle.

Based on your comment "For me it's just a matter of practicality: if it's a gash or a broken speedhook or a blatant discoloration, then yea that's fair, but I'm not going to waste my time and Carmina's over imperfections that I will accumulate anyway. " you would happily accept this car no question. I mean as long and it was not "blatant" issue like maybe a wheel falling off (=2 a speedhook).

Let's be honest and of course practical, all of the issues I listed are going to happen over time as you drive the car and it gets old.

You will get scratched from parking lots, paint will have to be matched over time, things will get loose, squeaks and noises will come with time. So again if you want to accept your brand new Porsche or shoes with blazing issue totally up to you. But most of us would pass up on a pair of Wal Mart sneakers that had the same issues as those Carmina MTO shoes. We would just look on the shelf for a pair that did not have those issues. Here you have a high end shoe manufacture and a Custom made pair of shoes so the only option is to kick them back to the manufacture.

Did you see the construction on those MTO shoes you can see the holes for the stitching at the welt. I have never seen this on shoes of any cost and it's clear this is a construction flaw. Again as I noted flaws that are natural issues with leather I don't care about that's normal. But gashes, nicks, misalignments, stitching issues, very noticeable discolorations, gobs of glue, this just should not be on any shoe of any cost. Like I said if any of us picked up a shoe at Wal Mart with these issue we would put it down and grab another pair without the issues.

Don't get me wrong I don't think shoes are investments they are shoes that I wear on my feet. They are in contact with the dirty ground and I don't mean to be gross but we all know we walk on pee in mens rooms with the soles of our feet. We step on bird crap, dog do, some really gross stuff. We kick things by accident and they get nicked and scratched. So yes many of these things will happen over time But we as the proud new owner should be the ones to do this damage to our shoes they should not come in the box new with these issues.

Maybe I have read your post the wrong way but sounds like you open the box, take out the paper, slip them on, and as long as they lace up (no broken speedhooks) you are good to go.

But I am sure that most anyone else on this site no matter the brand or the cost of the shoes would have issue with those womens shoes that Daraven purchased for his wife. He did not need to look at them with Hubble space telescope to see the blazing QC issues.

Also as I noted I am a big Carmina fan but if you go back in this forum to last year and beyond you will find almost no QC issues posted. You will see photos of beautiful shoes from Carmina that are really flawless no real issues. But if you notice recently in the past several months there are an increasing number of these QC issues post with photos to backup the post. So I think we all can see that things have changed in the QC at Carmina. Again no need to believe me all you have to do is review past post and you can see for yourself. I remember someone noting that this could be a result in Carmina gaining popularity that as production increases QC goes down maybe that is the issue.

Again to make things clear we are talking about Daraven purchasing an MTO Expected to be First Quality shoes for his wife. He did not purchase or pay for seconds or less. I have purchased Carmina seconds in the past and yes they have a few cosmetic flaws. They do not have any construction issues like exposed stitch holes, gobs of glue, nicks or cuts, seams pulling apart...


That's my $1.02
 
Last edited:

zag73

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Well said bravo!!!!
"I can assure you that it’s possible to spend less, the same, or more on quality footwear and receive a far better product than the shoes in question. If your shoe collection resembles those shoes, then you’ve been throwing your money away."

Also here is a good video to show the diff between shoes of various cost and what to expect
Kirby is ok and notice none of the shoes in this video have a single issue (and that is expected).





If you want to buy shoes of this caliber and cost and accept them with such blazing QC issues that's yours to do.

But you missed the point and some of the issue will affect the longevity of the shoes. Construction issues like stitching/glueing can become issues in a short time.

But anyways let's compare this to something else maybe a car. If you purchased a custom ordered Porsche 911 and upon delivery there was a scratch in the front fender, the paint on the rear quarter did not quite match the rest of the car, the drivers door handle was a little loose, a few of the interior trim pieces were loose, when you started the car it made an odd noise, as you test drove it there was a rattle.

Based on your comment "For me it's just a matter of practicality: if it's a gash or a broken speedhook or a blatant discoloration, then yea that's fair, but I'm not going to waste my time and Carmina's over imperfections that I will accumulate anyway. " you would happily accept this car no question. I mean as long and it was not "blatant" issue like maybe a wheel falling off (=2 a speedhook).

Let's be honest and of course practical, all of the issues I listed are going to happen over time as you drive the car and it gets old.

You will get scratched from parking lots, paint will have to be matched over time, things will get loose, squeaks and noises will come with time. So again if you want to accept your brand new Porsche or shoes with blazing issue totally up to you. But most of us would pass up on a pair of Wal Mart sneakers that had the same issues as those Carmina MTO shoes. We would just look on the shelf for a pair that did not have those issues. Here you have a high end shoe manufacture and a Custom made pair of shoes so the only option is to kick them back to the manufacture.

Did you see the construction on those MTO shoes you can see the holes for the stitching at the welt. I have never seen this on shoes of any cost and it's clear this is a construction flaw. Again as I noted flaws that are natural issues with leather I don't care about that's normal. But gashes, nicks, misalignments, stitching issues, very noticeable discolorations, gobs of glue, this just should not be on any shoe of any cost. Like I said if any of us picked up a shoe at Wal Mart with these issue we would put it down and grab another pair without the issues.

Don't get me wrong I don't think shoes are investments they are shoes that I wear on my feet. They are in contact with the dirty ground and I don't mean to be gross but we all know we walk on pee in mens rooms with the soles of our feet. We step on bird crap, dog do, some really gross stuff. We kick things by accident and they get nicked and scratched. So yes many of these things will happen over time But we as the proud new owner should be the ones to do this damage to our shoes they should not come in the box new with these issues.

Maybe I have read your post the wrong way but sounds like you open the box, take out the paper, slip them on, and as long as they lace up (no broken speedhooks) you are good to go.

But I am sure that most anyone else on this site no matter the brand or the cost of the shoes would have issue with those womens shoes that Daraven purchased for his wife. He did not need to look at them with Hubble space telescope to see the blazing QC issues.

Also as I noted I am a big Carmina fan but if you go back in this forum to last year and beyond you will find almost no QC issues posted. You will see photos of beautiful shoes from Carmina that are really flawless no real issues. But if you notice recently in the past several months there are an increasing number of these QC issues post with photos to backup the post. So I think we all can see that things have changed in the QC at Carmina. Again no need to believe me all you have to do is review past post and you can see for yourself. I remember someone noting that this could be a result in Carmina gaining popularity that as production increases QC goes down maybe that is the issue.

Again to make things clear we are talking about Daraven purchasing an MTO Expected to be First Quality shoes for his wife. He did not purchase or pay for seconds or less. I have purchased Carmina seconds in the past and yes they have a few cosmetic flaws. They do not have any construction issues like exposed stitch holes, gobs of glue, nicks or cuts, seams pulling apart...


That's my $1.02
The forum represents a tiny subset of Carmina’s customers, so we can’t draw any real conclusions around QC issues at Carmina. Also, people on here are more likely to notice even the tiniest spec of dust on a shoe. Just my pennies worth. Perhaps complain to Carnina directly instead of shaming them on here 😉
 

007Bond

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The forum represents a tiny subset of Carmina’s customers, so we can’t draw any real conclusions around QC issues at Carmina. Also, people on here are more likely to notice even the tiniest spec of dust on a shoe. Just my pennies worth. Perhaps complain to Carnina directly instead of shaming them on here 😉
You totally mistook my post I was not shaming Carmina as I said I only buy Carmina, shame you did not understand that I posted it twice.
 

zag73

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You totally mistook my post I was not shaming Carmina as I said I only buy Carmina, shame you did not understand that I posted it twice.
Apologies for any offence caused. The shaming comment wasn’t aimed at you even though I responded to your comment. It was an additional point I wanted to make but couldn’t be bothered to post separately. 👍
 

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