Carmina Shoes - Definitive Thread (reviews, advice, sizing, etc...) - official thread.

[vmss]

I used to purchase a lot of Carmina shoes about 5–7 years ago, and I’m considering making another purchase. How does the overall quality of Carmina compare to what it was back then?

 

[GLConstanza]

Any Elbamat or Pereandre leather with some use out here? I'm not sure I'm really tracking on the differences between the two, other than one supposedly being 'oily'

 

[GLConstanza]

@Carmina is a last comparison of Llubi vs Detroit possible?

 

[style_geek]

Anyone have two Carminas and can show the difference between brown and brown vegano so I can see the color differences? The brown looks very dark on the website (almost like black). Just debating these two calf colors.

 

[mezentius]

Ordered a pair of natural shell boots a few months ago, they arrived earlier this month. My first pair of cordovan, and my first pair of Carmina - they're the shell experts, so all should be well right? Wore them for a few hours inside yesterday, fits very comfy, but disappointed in the workmanship and clicking for something this expensive.

I understand that shell, natural especially, has variations. However a shell specialist should be able to see the differences in the material and try to match as much as possible. I don't really mind some variation on each shoe, like if the toecap is darker than the quarters, for example, but for this pair the left is obviously darker overall than the right. No products have been applied, this is straight out of the box worn inside only.

There is also a very obvious mark near the eyelets - again, shell isn't perfect, and typically I wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but this is a very prominent mark on a very prominent location in addition to all the other issues.

Furthermore, it seems that there is a lot of glue residue? that is unevenly distributed across the medallion, leading to some very dark spots and some very light spots.

Overall, this seems to me to be a seconds quality boot at first prices. Maybe they'll even out with time, maybe they won't. I was going to purchase another pair in natural CXL, but given what I see I don't think I'll be purchasing from Carmina again.

 

[stephenaf2003]

Ordered a pair of natural shell boots a few months ago, they arrived earlier this month. My first pair of cordovan, and my first pair of Carmina - they're the shell experts, so all should be well right? Wore them for a few hours inside yesterday, fits very comfy, but disappointed in the workmanship and clicking for something this expensive.

I understand that shell, natural especially, has variations. However a shell specialist should be able to see the differences in the material and try to match as much as possible. I don't really mind some variation on each shoe, like if the toecap is darker than the quarters, for example, but for this pair the left is obviously darker overall than the right. No products have been applied, this is straight out of the box worn inside only.

View attachment 2304029

There is also a very obvious mark near the eyelets - again, shell isn't perfect, and typically I wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but this is a very prominent mark on a very prominent location in addition to all the other issues.

View attachment 2304035

Furthermore, it seems that there is a lot of glue residue? that is unevenly distributed across the medallion, leading to some very dark spots and some very light spots.

View attachment 2304031


View attachment 2304033

Overall, this seems to me to be a seconds quality boot at first prices. Maybe they'll even out with time, maybe they won't. I was going to purchase another pair in natural CXL, but given what I see I don't think I'll be purchasing from Carmina again.

You’re identifying all the things hardcore shell lovers, especially natural shell heads, love about the leather as problematic. I suspect you might do well, to avoid the lighter colored shells, and possibly any shell altogether.

 

[mezentius]

I have many lighter coloured leathers, just not cordovan. They have great natural character and organic variation. I actively enjoy these variations, like when the toe is darker than the vamp, or if the counter is darker than the quarters. That is the natural character and variation of the material, and indeed unavoidable as different parts are stretched differently during lasting.

However, they have all been roughly symmetrical between right and left, despite large variations within each boot. Many shoemakers do not appear to have this problem at all. My expectation was that a careful clicker would try to match each set left and right, while allowing for variations within each shoe. What is shown here is, quite frankly, avoidable, had the clicking been more selective, likely with minimal waste as the darker parts would still have been used, just matched left to right.

I would have thought that making the left shoe look like the right shoe is the most unspoken and basic expectation for a shoemaker. Yes, variations occur for natural leathers, but the whole point of artisanship and expertise is to account of these variations while fulfilling the fundamentals of shoemaking. Otherwise, what are we paying for? To throw up your hands and say "well, can't make the left match the right, cordovan is special, all our expert craftspeople can't do anything about this at all, that's just how it is, you would like this if you were more hardcore" seems to be completely bonkers.

They are very comfy though...

 

[kevinftwman]

I agree with mezentius - the clear flawed markings should have been clicked around and those seem more like discoloration / uneven dying from the manufacturing process rather than natural variation in the leather itself. I would be reaching out to customer service to remedy the situation either through a partial discount or remake. With increased prices there should be consistent quality, that's literally what we pay for.

 

[TheLawBeard]

I'm going to gently point out here that your complaints about it are quite literally the reason several makers won't use natural shell. The makers who work with natural shell and execute at the level you desire- far more expensive than Carmina. Lightly colored shell cordovan is a degree of difficulty higher than darker shells. That's partly why Alden does it as "rare shell" and AE typically only does it on limited runs or price-inflated MTOs.

"Natty shell" is an absolute pain ***********. It requires OCD levels of attention at the tannery, at the supplier, and for the maker. And then all of that goes out the window very quickly in the real world. It patinas quickly and unevenly. Shows off every flaw or bit of damage you pick up. Shell mitigates that a bit but natural shell is still a very different animal.

 

[mezentius]

I would be reaching out to customer service to remedy the situation either through a partial discount or remake. With increased prices there should be consistent quality, that's literally what we pay for.

No need - this isn't the end of the world, they really are quite comfy, and I'm hoping they'll even out once they have patina. I'm just complaining because I'm disappointed in the clicking and overall workmanship of this brand.

The makers who work with natural shell and execute at the level you desire- far more expensive than Carmina.

How much more than $1200 USD must one pay to get shoes where the right matches the left? I'm not asking for a completely uniform boot - I understand that is unreasonable given natural cordovan - I'm not asking for a fiddle waist, hand welting, MTM/bespoke fit, or any other labour intensive crafts that these "far more expensive" makers offer, I'm just asking that they are clicked so that the right shoe matches the left shoe. If I can't get that for $1200, then inflation must have hit a lot harder than I thought.

 

[DorianGreen]

Ordered a pair of natural shell boots a few months ago, they arrived earlier this month. My first pair of cordovan, and my first pair of Carmina - they're the shell experts, so all should be well right? Wore them for a few hours inside yesterday, fits very comfy, but disappointed in the workmanship and clicking for something this expensive.

I understand that shell, natural especially, has variations. However a shell specialist should be able to see the differences in the material and try to match as much as possible. I don't really mind some variation on each shoe, like if the toecap is darker than the quarters, for example, but for this pair the left is obviously darker overall than the right. No products have been applied, this is straight out of the box worn inside only.

View attachment 2304029

There is also a very obvious mark near the eyelets - again, shell isn't perfect, and typically I wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but this is a very prominent mark on a very prominent location in addition to all the other issues.

View attachment 2304035

Furthermore, it seems that there is a lot of glue residue? that is unevenly distributed across the medallion, leading to some very dark spots and some very light spots.

View attachment 2304031


View attachment 2304033

Overall, this seems to me to be a seconds quality boot at first prices. Maybe they'll even out with time, maybe they won't. I was going to purchase another pair in natural CXL, but given what I see I don't think I'll be purchasing from Carmina again.

Hmm, I'd say it's at the borderline of tolerance. At a first glance I thought you were overdoing, but having rotated the picture, I can clearly see that right and left shoe differ noticeably.

Again, I'm not a shell fan, also for these issues, which basically never occur with calfskin.

All my Carmina in calfskin don't show any issues and I'm very happy with them.

 

[vmss]

Hmm, I'd say it's at the borderline of tolerance. At a first glance I thought you were overdoing, but having rotated the picture, I can clearly see that right and left shoe differ noticeably.

View attachment 2304259

Again, I'm not a shell fan, also for these issues, which basically never occur with calfskin.

All my Carmina in calfskin don't show any issues and I'm very happy with them.

What about suede? Do you find these issues in suede?

 

[DorianGreen]

What about suede? Do you find these issues in suede?

I don't have any Carmina in suede, but all my shoes (John Lobb, Gaziano & Girling, Astorflex) in that leather are pretty consistent, no issues.

 

[vmss]

I have a pair of snuff suede Carmina String Loafers with slightly different tones. The left shoe a bit darker then the right.

 

[DorianGreen]

I have a pair of snuff suede Carmina String Loafers with slightly different tones. The left shoe a bit darker then the right.

Yes, I can see it. Still acceptable in my opinion.