Carlos Santos Shoes - Feedback & Appreciation

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by VRaivio, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

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    The rules are to get followed by everybody. I got nothing against anyone, just follow the rules or try to do, on the contrary, what would say if any other, not me, would put pics of what he is selling all around the forum with even his own face as has happened [​IMG]. You know what would happen, I know what will happen... Let´s leave that there, as Bart Simpson said to Lisa on a chapter.

    Best wishes
     


  2. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    Just a preliminary try-on while at work! Will give my thoughts later.

    [​IMG]
     


  3. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    Thoughts on Carlos Santos.

    Alright, so I received the Carlos Santos Swan Neck Oxfords yesterday, in black, which are on the 187 Last. My first instincts were - to be perfectly honest - yikes, these are too pointy for my tastes. I unboxed my G&Gs which also came yesterday, and compared them length-wise. They were surprisingly similar in length.

    So I tried them on, stood up, and was rather surprised how nice they looked on the foot. The last reminds me of the Carmina Inca - which I have pictured below in brown suede. However, the 187 is a bit more chiseled than the Carmina Inca - the latter is very round and almondy. I am still warming up to the 187 last. The shoes are fairly narrow. And there is a good amount of extension. I think they are keepers as far as I am concerned.

    It is likely that the 187 looks more extended than it is due to the placement of the toe cap. If you compare the CS with the G&G, the toe cap on the CS is a good half an inch closer to the vamp, which serves to exacerbate the already extended last. However, on the foot this was not noticeable at all. And this is something that WOULD stand out to me.

    As someone else mentioned, the toe cap stiching is stylistically closer to the vamp to balance the swan neck. I am not sure if it is perfectly harmonious with the last, but in this price segment, I think it does an above average job (objectively speaking).

    First impressions. The shoes are comfortable, if a bit stiff. The finishing is very neat, especially considering the price. The last is narrow, but it fit my foot nicely. I think that if you had to size up, then maybe this last is not for you. I have no qualms with the finishing whatsoever - it seems very similar to Carmina. The shoes come in a nice box, with nice bags, and a shoe horn. The leather quality is about the same as Carmina in my opinion. With that said, Carmina does have the benefit of closed channel stitching (which I really, really do not care about, TBH, on $325.00 shoes). I think that Carmina feels a bit more refined, especially the last and design. But then again, I prefer this last to the Inca, and this is the most elongated last that Skoak offers in Carlos Santos, so I am probably not being fair.

    All in all, they feel far nicer than $325.00 shoes (with the way shoes are priced today), and I think they are a great buy in the value segment. However, pre-price increase, I think Carmina was a better option - but then again, we all know that the $330.00 Carmina's were too good to be true. However, they were a better option by a very slim margin.

    Carlos Santos comes in a nice package, they are well finished, they seem to be on nicely shaped lasts, and they feel nice and sturdy. Will likely buy another pair.

    As far as sizing:

    I am a UK9E in C&J on the 348, UK9 (stardard width) in Carmina on the Rain, Inca, etc., US10D Allen Edmonds, UK9.5/10 D or E in E&G in the 606, 82, and 888, UK9.5E in G&G, 42.5/43 in Vass F Last (I have a small instep, which is my problem with Vass), 43/43.5 in Vass U Last.

    Hope all this helps!

    Last comparison - G&G and CS.

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    Last comparison - CS, Carmina Inca, and C&J 348.

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  4. Leaves

    Leaves Affiliate Vendor Affiliate Vendor

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    Thank you for that input @Newcomer, I hope this helps people considering Carlos Santos.

    Here's some more data and feedback in regards of lasts and fit, with references to other premium shoemaker lasts.


    Carlos Santos lasts Patrik (@Leaves)


    Carlos Santos - 234: UK 11
    Generous last with plenty room across the instep, great arch support. For me it fits very close to Carmina Rain, maybe a hair wider. Honestly one of the most comfortable RTW lasts I’ve tried.

    Carlos Santos - 160: UK 11
    Also a quite generous last despite the sleek look. A bit more narrow than the 234 last and Carmina Rain.

    Carlos Santos - 187: UK 11.5
    I had to size up half a size from 234 and 160. Still, not an optimal fit for my wide-ish feet. It's slim but not as slim as Carmina Simpson (which I have a problem even getting into). It's however longer than Simpson. Not an optimal last if you have a wide foot or high instep. Better for people with slim to normal width feet.

    Reference lasts Patrik

    Carmina
    Carmina Rain: UK 11 - good fit, the best of all the Carmina lasts for me
    Carmina Soller: UK 11 - slight heel slippage
    Carmina Inca: UK 11.5 – not a perfect fit for me
    Carmina Forest: UK 11.5 - decent fit, the instep could be roomier for a better fit. I use UK 12 for boots in order to accommodate thicker socks.
    Carmina Simpson: Could probably squeeze into a UK 12 but in all honesty, not a good last for me, I avoid it because of my wide-ish feet and high instep

    Edward Green
    184: UK 11.5 E
    202: UK 11.5 F bordering on E, not an optimal fit for me
    606: UK 11.5 F bordering on E, not an optimal fit for me
    82: UK 11.5 F - good fit for me, best of all EG lasts
    888: UK 11.5 F

    Gaziano & Girling
    KN14: UK 11.5 F
    MH71: UK 11.5 F - very good fit, best fitting of all G&G lasts
    GG06: UK 11.5 F
    DG70: UK 11.5 F
    TG73: UK 12 F - not an optimal fit for me

    Enzo Bonafé
    Enzo Bonafé 74945: UK 11.5 – very good fit, among the best of any RTW last I’ve tried
    Enzo Bonafé 363: UK 11.5 – heel slippage, not an optimal last for me
    Enzo Bonafé 363MOD: UK 11.5 (better than the normal 363 last but still some minor heel slippage, although no heel slippage if it's a high boot like a Button Boot or a Balmoral boot)

    Saint Crispin’s
    Classic last: 11.5 G/F – I’m between F and G and now have a personalized last

    Other brands:
    John Lobb 7000: UK 11F – can wear UK 11E but this is very snug
    Alden Barrie: US 11.5D – too roomy


    Carlos Santos lasts Oliver (@Dannefalk)

    160: UK 8
    187: 8.5
    234: UK 8

    Reference lasts Oliver

    Carmina
    Rain: UK 8
    Simson: UK 8.5

    Gaziano & Girling
    MH71: 8.5 E (slightly narrow, could take wider width as well)
    TG73:8.5 E (slightly narrow, could take wider width as well)

    Saint Crispin’s
    Classic: 8 G - Best fitting RTW last and size for me

    Enzo Bonafè
    946 – 8.5 (a bit roomy over the instep, slightly long)
    363 – 8.5 (a bit roomy over the instep)


    Top down view of some CS lasts.
    [​IMG]
     


  5. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

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    it seems someone got his freebies on the mail for what I am reading.[​IMG][​IMG]
     


  6. Verrihappy

    Verrihappy Senior member

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    Why is an Affiliate allowed to shamelessly shill his wares to the unsuspecting outside of his paid thread?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016


  7. rbhan12

    rbhan12 Senior member

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    Can you explain how sizing advice and last comparisons is spam?
     


  8. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

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    On just a small time, just an unkown brand is getting spam out the proper affiliated threads here and on all my expossed blogs on prior post, that omho lows the name of whoever who features there and getting very strange sizing comparations that for me are like comparing a Champions League football team with a local team league or a Ferrari with a non comparable in price of features with X (name whatever brand to avoid damaging the sensibility of whoever).

    On marketing studies, that is calling “creating expectations”, on the internet some people call it hyping, others do call it shilling.

    All the roads lead to Rome... or the Truth is out there.

    My two cents, and hope to be wrong by the honesty of the business and this great forum as well.

    Hope to have answered properly to your question.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016


  9. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    @Leaves has been giving sizing advice because:
    1) He has access to the different CS lasts and can give a fairly objective opinion. There is a dearth of sizing advice on CS otherwise.
    2) He also has access to lasts of different makers (makers that are widely available apart from SkoaB), that would give a useful reference point.
    He also has given comparisons against other makers not carried by SkoaB.
    His post came across as more of information sharing rather than pitching his wares.
    Anyone with half a brain can discern which retailer he wants to buy his shoes from if he gets a more competitive price elsewhere.
    In any case, the post was far more useful that those of vacuous imbeciles posting thoughtless crap without rendering ANY viable information on the maker in question.
    Also, the idea of not being able to compare sizing among different makers in different price points, and likening it to football teams, is absolutely ridiculous. Stupid, to say the least.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016


  10. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

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    Leaving back people who seems straightly connected to others, I would like to know why the repent anxiety about a brand that existed for some years and now is having a very strange and suspicious revival with all kind of suspicious acting and suspicious people all around. Just curious, nothing else.

    Very curious to know why people who can chose way other brand of let´s say, well know brands who everybody would like to own first, got this strange excitement, I never commented anything about the brand, neither good or bad if is readed with attention, I am just curious by this strange phenomenon that every x time repeats as a cycle . It seems we might got another case here or maybe I did wrong all the time so might be the time to put pics of myself all around with the owners and grandmasters of all the Neapolitan industry who teached me so I sell. I think I am getting it... [​IMG] as well as putting all kind of comparations as GAP- Attolini ties, Zara-Barba shirts, so with the comparations I can spread my product pics all around, great idea because I got pics myself with almost all the big ones but I was shy to publish, I think I am getting it...thanks for the tip. Very smart! Never could have realiced by myself. Great to learn new things daily.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016


  11. Petepan

    Petepan Senior member

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    With the lacing being so close together, I suspect you might find these too roomy once the shoe breaks in.
     


  12. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Senior member

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    Nobody was comparing the perceived quality between different makers. Comparisons were made between SIZING and FIT of the lasts. Any moron with at least a smattering, or semblance of rudimentary intelligence can at least understand that.
    No one is saying a Division 3 team can beat Real Madrid.
     


  13. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    A little concerned about that. These socks are a bit thinner that what I normally wear. I am hoping it will be fine, but that is certainly a possibility. I have a very low instep, unfortunately, so this is a problem across the board. They are actually quite tight on the other parts of my foot.

    Also, re: me being paid to write something? I will gladly post my receipt, I can assure pretty much anyone that I have never received any freebies... although I would certainly take them.

    New product from an established vendor - is it surprising that you are hearing more about the product?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016


  14. Petepan

    Petepan Senior member

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    I suppose a tongue pad may fix the problem if it eventuates. I have the same problem with low instep. BTW nice shoes, waiting for more comments on how they wear.
     


  15. vmss

    vmss Senior member

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    I don't know if it's me, but this brand looks very similar to Magnanni. I see a lot of similarities with their hand antique patina service, pointy sleek models, similar color linings and the welt and heel are colored black. I see lots of similarities between these two brands. You get both of these brands available in same shoe stores in Holland.

    Also, what I don't understand is that these are more expensive than Carmina in the US averaging around $495 and in Europe priced around 275 euros right below Carmina.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016


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